EBNOM official discussion thread

[Lionheart]

I'm glad that you liked it. So here are some screenshots of the units in the field.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Dienices, I have visited your Youtube account, so you can making intros and so on. Would you like to make some for EB: Novus Ordo Mundi in the future?

[Marku]

this mod looks very interesting indeed

keep it up please!

[florin80]

You really should have a credits list to accompany the preview given that you`re using the work of other artists. Other then yours or eb`s I mean. If they`ve spent their time on them it`s nice to acknowledge it.

[Lionheart]

Your are right just do that. I forgot that. Sorry but my experience in modding...well it's the first time that i'm envolved in something like this so...

[Finn MacCumhail]

florin80, do not worry. We use only EB models (it is obvious as EB: NOM is EB mod) and new ones, done by me and LDC. Also EB:NOM team cooperate with other mods, and some members work on different projects. We respect the work of other artists, and we wouldn't steel their work for sure.

[florin80]

florin80, do not worry. We use only EB models (it is obvious as EB: NOM is EB mod) and new ones, done by me and LDC.

You have stuff made by LAca in several of the units. And these guys for example:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...9&d=1282994332
are a reskinned version of Publius`s(Rome Total Realism) punic infantry:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The shield from these guys:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...8&d=1282994332
is that made by Caius Britannicus for RTR 7 where it is used by the lib-phoenicians:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2...gepage4ej5.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1...gepage5kt2.jpg
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...49#post2333849
And there are several other elements that one can spot. Either way they got included in your mod, you should mention the people who`s work you are using in your credits.

[Lionheart]

I see your point. But i dont know. The units are made by LDC and i dont know where he get's the models or if he created that from scratch.
I will ask him about that.

[Brapbrapbap]

Not much i can do to directly help you ( i know nothing about moding Rome) so the least i could do is post here and show my support for this project, hope everything goes according to plan and i look forward to it

[Anubis88]

Thanks for the support everyone... It's very nice to see people posting after previews... It gives one the will to do more and more.

@Florin80

I can assure you that none of the models or skins were used without it being allowed, at least not as far as i know. I'll look into the things you posted, to see if you are right.
However i don't think you can actually say that a shield has been taken from a certain unit. Of course one uses foreign inspirations, that's what people do, but to say that it was stolen because it looks like a shield from a different unit of a completly different mod for the same area is ridiculus. It's like saying that if one mod chose the eagle as the symbol for the Romans, the other's are copying it.

We are trying to do all the work for ourselves, and would never steal anything under any circumstance.

[florin80]

However i don't think you can actually say that a shield has been taken from a certain unit. Of course one uses foreign inspirations, that's what people do

No, I did not mean inspiration. I mean those parts mentioned(together with a few others) are the exact parts of other textures from other artists. If you look at them you`ll see they have the exact dents, scratches, luminosity etc. as the originals. I`ve used some of those myself so i can recognize them.

, but to say that it was stolen because it looks like a shield from a different unit of a completly different mod for the same area is ridiculus.

No, it isn`t and if that`s your attitude, fine, I`ll report you to the administration and let them decide. Not to mention that I did not say "it was stolen". I said you are not crediting the people who made some of the stuff you`re displaying. Of all the nerve! There`s two things I don`t like when it comes to using stuff around here. People not granting permissions and people who don`t give credits. Both are a choke on the sharing attitude that`s needed for a flourishing rtw modding community.

We are trying to do all the work for ourselves, and would never steal anything under any circumstance.

There`s absolutely nothing wrong with using stuff from other people. In fact I`d advice you to do it and save development time. I`m sure RTR and LAca will be glad to give you permission if they haven`t already. That was not the point though. The point was that you`re showing stuff done by people who you don`t credit and implicitly you`re getting praise for stuff that`s not entirely done by you. That`s ... not nice to put it this way.

PS; the way to get past this with grace would have been to take care of it. Give the credits that are required or, if you were not involved in the unit`s creation(according to the posts above you weren`t) inform yourself before making comments about where things come from.

[Cassibellane]

No, I did not mean inspiration. I mean those parts mentioned(together with a few others) are the exact parts of other textures from other artists. If you look at them you`ll see they have the exact dents, scratches, luminosity etc. as the originals. I`ve used some of those myself so i can recognize them.

No, it isn`t and if that`s your attitude, fine, I`ll report you to the administration and let them decide. Not to mention that I did not say "it was stolen". I said you are not crediting the people who made some of the stuff you`re displaying. Of all the nerve! There`s two things I don`t like when it comes to using stuff around here. People not granting permissions and people who don`t give credits. Both are a choke on the sharing attitude that`s needed for a flourishing rtw modding community.

There`s absolutely nothing wrong with using stuff from other people. In fact I`d advice you to do it and save development time. I`m sure RTR and LAca will be glad to give you permission if they haven`t already. That was not the point though. The point was that you`re showing stuff done by people who you don`t credit and implicitly you`re getting praise for stuff that`s not entirely done by you. That`s ... not nice to put it this way.

PS; the way to get past this with grace would have been to take care of it. Give the credits that are required or, if you were not involved in the unit`s creation(according to the posts above you weren`t) inform yourself before making comments about where things come from.

Perhaps another way of getting out of this with grace would have been to stay calm, and not start throwing insults and threats around.

I quote, from Anubis88; "I can assure you that none of the models or skins were used without it being allowed, at least not as far as i know. I'll look into the things you posted, to see if you are right."

Is that "attitude" not sufficient for you? You're going to report the team for looking into your concerns?

I can understand the point you are making, but just chill...these guys aren't out to rip anyone's work off, the guy posting the preview is new to it (damn good job, btw ), the team are working hard to put something together and have made it clear that they are taking your initial concerns on board.

Take a few deep breaths and the whole thing will likely come to a happy, uncontentious conclusion. Peace go with you.

[florin80]

Well, I`ve send the report and it`s up to the staff to decide whether it was a question of mere inspiration as the team`s representative stated when he flatly rejected my post or an actual copy-paste. Personally I find it wonderful that Publius`, Caius` and LAca` stuff is still being used after all these years. Whenever possible I try to use it myself. It`s a nice tribute to their great contribution to the rtw modding community. Giving credits to them is what completes the gesture. How one can make a unit and not know it contains parts he hasn`t done himself is beyond me.

[Tony83]

Guys, on behalf of the RTR team,let me try and defuse this situation before there are anymore cross words said, and bad feelings engendered. I am sure that there was no intention, on the part of anyone on the EB team, of knowingly using, or allowing to be used, material of other artists without acknowledgement. If it has happened then I am sure that it was accidental because, having created numerous textures myself, utilising our existing material, I know how difficult it can be to keep track of things on times.

RTR policy on allowing others to use our material is very simple: if it has been released into the public domain, then it is freely available for use on request, providing the usual acknowledgements are given. So if this has not happened in this instance then it is easily resolved. Our team has a great respect for EB and all its people's work, most of us, myself included, play and are very familiar with your opus. So let me extend the hand of mutual friendship here and formally declare, in retrospect if necessary, that EB has full permission to use any of our published work. As for acknowledgements, I shall leave that entirely up to you, for I have absolutely no intention of inspecting and arguing over every piece of panoply ("This is my scabbard, that is your sword!") - life's far too short.

[Lionheart]

From other mods... This needs to be adressed. I think that noone took anything volountarly, but if you did, those units must be cut, or we need to ask for the permission from the people who made them.
We can't have people saying we are thieves
So, did we steal anything, or are people just imagining stuff? And noone will be shot or anyhing, we just need to adress this. (post by Anubis in our intern forum)

I secund that.
LDC and i'm not saying that you stole some model or something like that.
A guy in Total War Center is claiming that you have used parts of units made by some modders in the past and put them in the units.
It's that true or do you made that models from scratch?
Perhaps a better place to see the all issue is to go to Total War Center forums and see the posts fallowing the preview of Numidia.
We need some clarification on that. This is not because we doubt you. But probably you are the best person to answear to the questions that are beeing posted and accusations made bu that guy. (my own post in our internal forum)

So with the ideia for clarifying the situation both me and Anubis are trying to answear your initial question.
Obviously in the credits in give the right ones to the guys that worked in the units.
Also may i add something: is not possible that a guy could create a unit or parts of a unit without copying or stelling some other ideias and the result could appear to be similar to one model that already exists?

Also i as a leader of the Numidia faction i'm trying to clarify that. And if indeed the result after LDC say something is that he based is conception in that units we will certainly give the credits to the original creators or we will request the permission.

So this get you more assured? We will clarify the issue. You have my word and the word of all the members of the team.

(Sorry the bad english if some appear in this post i just have three years of english in school so it's not perfect)

[Lionheart]

Tony83 thank's for your words. But i make question that this matter is solved.

I do not intend to damage the reputation of EB or of any members of the team working in the new EB:NOM.

If LDC did used your units for inspiration it's a matter of proud to have the credits also assigned to the original creators since for your post i believe that we have the ok for the RTR team to use them as inspiration.

Anyways i say again thank you.

P.S. : some while a go i also played your mod it's great.

[Tony83]

Tony83 thank's for your words. But i make question that this matter is solved.

I do not intend to damage the reputation of EB or of any members of the team working in the new EB:NOM.

If LDC did used your units for inspiration it's a matter of proud to have the credits also assigned to the original creators since for your post i believe that we have the ok for the RTR team to use them as inspiration.

Anyways i say again thank you.

P.S. : some while a go i also played your mod it's great.

Thank you Lionheart, you are welcome. And, yes! EB, EB:NOM, or anyone else for that matter, are free to use any of our published unit textures and models, or parts thereof, providing the usual acknowledgements are given.

Good luck with your mod, I await its completion with interest.

[Lionheart]

Again i say thank's to you and your team.

After the issue be solved and if LDC did used your units as inspiration i will make the credits.
If that come to be can i put the credits in the fallowing form: Special thank's to the creators in charge of RTR for providing the inspiration to our units.

If that is ok and after solving the question if it's true that LDC used your models i will add the fallowing line to the credits.

It's also a honor to have one of the creators of RTR watching our progression. I believe that probably you will like the final result of the hard work of the members developing EB: Novus Ordo Mundi. At least i'm expecting that you liked it.

[Tony83]

Can I also ask that you add the artists' names to any acknowledgements as well please (Caius Britannicus, Publius, and LACa). As far as we are concerned this matter is now resolved.

The honour is mutual, I respect anyone who puts much of their time and effort into modding our wonderful game.

[Lionheart]

Can I also ask that you add the artists' names to any acknowledgements as well please (Caius Britannicus, Publius, and LACa). As far as we are concerned this matter is now resolved.

The honour is mutual, I respect anyone who puts much of their time and effort into modding our wonderful game.

Ok after the issue be clarified. And if LDC turns out to have used their works. Their names and the credits to all RTR team will be part of our credits without a doubt. (We still need to hear LDC out even if this only occurs in your development forum).

Again i would like to thank you.

And from my part and perhaps speaking in the name of the team this matter is also resolved.