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Thread: weak byzantine troops

  1. #41

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Well, yes the French get some good late-period missile units:

    recruit_pool "Aventurier" 1 0.13 1 0 requires factions { france, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1 and hidden_resource france
    recruit_pool "Aventurier" 0 0.085 1 0 requires factions { france, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1 and not hidden_resource france
    recruit_pool "Scots Guard" 1 0.13 1 0 requires factions { france, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1 and hidden_resource france
    recruit_pool "Scots Guard" 0 0.085 1 0 requires factions { france, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1 and not hidden_resource france
    recruit_pool "Dismounted French Archers" 1 0.34 2 0 requires factions { jerusalem, france, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1

    But compare to the English units, which have far higher availability in the same time period:

    recruit_pool "Dismounted Longbowmen" 1 0.67 2 0 requires factions { england, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1
    recruit_pool "Yeoman Archers" 1 0.84 3 0 requires factions { england, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1
    recruit_pool "Longbowmen" 1 0.67 4 0 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource england and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1
    recruit_pool "Longbowmen" 0 0.34 2 0 requires factions { england, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1 and hidden_resource scotland or hidden_resource ireland or hidden_resource france

  2. #42

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    I never said the English were better than the French, nor anything about money. All I said was that "the English get the best archers in terms of availability".

    At any rate, the English fair somewhat worse than the French early on in the cavalry department, the King's Men bring them back up to date, but they fall back again with lancers. Infantry-wise, I prefer heavy billmen to voulgiers though I'll grant the voulgiers are probably better.

  3. #43

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    is it possible to make recruitment based on enemy engagements and other factors, similar to how the Apacheans recruit units. To reflect factions developing new tactics and counter measures.
    Balbor

    Former Creative Director
    Former Head Unit Modeller and Texture
    Fourth Age:Total War

  4. #44

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Ooo that'd be interesting but I think it would take too long to do, even if possible

    Still, if it could be done and someone was willing to spend the time...

  5. #45

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    holy , these shiponores are really crazy, it can kill -uhm no, to kill is a weak argument, they could actually evaporates them- an entire unit at a single volley! were they really exist? how could the roman lost then?

    fastest killing machines : (non mounted)

    1. shiponores
    2. naffatun
    3. muskeeters
    Last edited by napoleonic; July 17, 2010 at 11:57 AM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    At siege of Constantinopole the siphonatores was no more. No more greek fire fuel available.

    Kill Them All, Let God Sort Them Out!


  7. #47

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Hello, sorry for asking this here, but is there a pdf in which BCUR units are included in the Real Combat "scale"?

    I am playing SS.1 with BCUR, and I am not sure about which penalties or bonuses my Byzantine troops get in melee combat.

    (if not a pdf, any information on the issue would do).

    Thanks in andvance.

  8. #48

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Read the RR and RC guides.

    But I'm not sure that there is a RR/RC version for 6.1. Do you mean you downloaded the RR/RC compilation and installed over 6.1? That would bring you to 6.2.

  9. #49

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Byzantium > Venice >>>> The rest of the word.

    It's such a shame we don't live an a Greco-Romano-Venetian utopia.

  10. #50

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Read the RR and RC guides.

    But I'm not sure that there is a RR/RC version for 6.1. Do you mean you downloaded the RR/RC compilation and installed over 6.1? That would bring you to 6.2.
    Sorry I meant 6.0. I got SS 6.0 and then got BCUR. In the 6.0 pdf there was no mention of where castrophylakai, scoutatoi, etc stand in the "elite-superior-avegare-militia-peasant" chart...

  11. #51

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    It's CBUR. RR/RC was integrated into SS only at version 6.3. Until that point, you had to get it as a submod. If you didn't download it separately, you don't have it, and that means units don't have different degrees of quality. You can get the 6.1 patch and then the RR/RC compilation, which includes 6.2. You can play that until the new version of the compilation comes out.

    Just for reference, Scutatoi, Spathatoi and Castrophylakes are Superior (and I think so are Stratiotai - if not, they're Average), Varangians and Scholarii are Elite. Both the foot and mounted Akritae are Average.

  12. #52

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    It's CBUR. RR/RC was integrated into SS only at version 6.3. Until that point, you had to get it as a submod. If you didn't download it separately, you don't have it, and that means units don't have different degrees of quality. You can get the 6.1 patch and then the RR/RC compilation, which includes 6.2. You can play that until the new version of the compilation comes out.

    Just for reference, Scutatoi, Spathatoi and Castrophylakes are Superior (and I think so are Stratiotai - if not, they're Average), Varangians and Scholarii are Elite. Both the foot and mounted Akritae are Average.
    Thank you for this information, K/t.

  13. #53

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    In next RC, Byz troops are relatively tougher than they are now due to different modelling of mental stats.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    In next RC, Byz troops are relatively tougher than they are now due to different modelling of mental stats.
    I don't really find Byzantine troops weak at all. You sure they need to be buffed?

  15. #55

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    It does not sound like buffing. They will simply have better morale compared to other early game units. And I suspect PB will give other factions units with better mental stats in the late game as opposed to the Romans. It should even out just fine.

    By the late period the Romans are in a tough spot, yes the roster is good........but it has very few AP troops (that are available all over) for dealing with plate armored opponents aside from your javelin units and Varangians. Flame throwers are super but are not very common.

    I think the balancing should be pretty good overall. But then again YMMV.

    “Never forget who you are, for surely the world won’t. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, & it will never be used to hurt you.” – Tyrion Lannister

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  16. #56

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Javelins aren't AP.

  17. #57

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    But they are great for killing heavily armored units. So they for most units they work wonders.

    THey really only get into trouble when trying to kill Lancers, and other uber armored units.

    “Never forget who you are, for surely the world won’t. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, & it will never be used to hurt you.” – Tyrion Lannister

    "The North remembers" Wyman The Godfather Manderly

  18. #58
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    To the OP and on the original Topic:
    Why do you describe the Kastrophylakes as a high era unit? Aren't the available from game start with only the third level of city barracks? They're basically a militia and probably equivalent to the Sword Milita of catholic factions except that not only are they available one city tier sooner and with no era requirements but they're classed as superior and their stats of 5, 18 look pretty exceptional compared to the 2, 14 of Sword milita.

    I don't have ME2TW atm so I'm basing this off the stats at pressdat.com but the Byz roster looks pretty strong to me, yes they have few late era units and things like the Spathatoi aren't quite as good as dismounted Men at Arms but they're solid enough to be competitive and there are some stand out powerful units in there too.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Not as good, but 150 instead of 120, recruitable much earlier and much more readily available.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Not as good, but 150 instead of 120, recruitable much earlier and much more readily available.
    Exactly my point. They're basically as good as Mailed Foot Knights, which is certainly good enough to not embarrass themselves on the battlefield, except that for a slighter higher initial cost you get a larger unit at a much lower upkeep. That's an extremely good deal, and given the good availability and unit upgrades (they get two armour upgrades?) I can't see how they, and the rest of the roster for that matter, could be considered too weak. It has different strengths and weakness than most of the other factions, but they're pretty much in balance imho.
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