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Thread: weak byzantine troops

  1. #21
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by smitty View Post
    Uh, what RR/RC version are you playing? What is your average based on? Perhaps feudal era dismounted knights are your average unit? They are supposed to be an expensive and very rare unit, as is historically accurate. They have 8 starting damage. Most other units have much lower damage and are typically spear units, which have a low melee plus a negative modifier against other infantry units. I'm baffled by your assumed average.

    As for the Byzantines... Scoutati Swordsmen/Castrophilikae are in high numbers once their respective barracks are built although take longer to train. A melee attack of 5 is substantial, especially compared to the majority spear-based composition of many RR/RC armies. Have you actually bothered to play a campaign with these units? They destroy other units. Add in the deadly Mourtatoi who do great ranged damage then also add in their 4-5 melee damage... yeah, your entire army is a walking slashing machine. Sure you'll take some casualties, but its certainly not like amassing one of Italy's urban spear militia armies.

    And as for your Varangian Guard, if you bothered to do a search in the forums you'd see you need a metropolis and the respective mayor's palace building. They're a high value, highly trained mercenary unit. Don't expect to just be amassing them either.

    Oh and the Byzantines have access to a wide array of devastating heavy cavalry types with insanely strong armor for their era.
    I did bother to look for the answer and no one gave me one on the CBUR forum. I hadn't thought about posting or searching this one. That was many months ago.

  2. #22
    themoob's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Wow, seriously?

    Byzantine heavy cavalry are SCARY, I'm always very wary about facing them with my Novgorod troops (damn lack of spears)

  3. #23
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Dομέστικοc
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperiumiv View Post
    I did bother to look for the answer and no one gave me one on the CBUR forum. I hadn't thought about posting or searching this one. That was many months ago.
    Sorry?
    What was your answer about the strengths of Roman armies in CBUR?
    When ??

  4. #24
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    I don't remember. At the time i thought the CBUR team was the same as the rr/rc team.

  5. #25

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    I count Mourtatoi as exceptional given their high attack and availability. In fact, they have the very same attack and arrow type as Peasante archers They even have about the same starting total defence, though their armour+shield is worse than the peasante archers' armour.

    I invade the Byzantine Empire just to get those AOR Mourtatoi archers, the best archers in the game, cheap, widely available, and there flaming arrows thrash any unit not in Plate Armour...drool...

  6. #26
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperiumiv View Post
    I don't remember. At the time i thought the CBUR team was the same as the rr/rc team.
    Nope

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  7. #27

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    CBUR is included in RR/RC by the kind permission of the CBUR developers
    Last edited by Point Blank; June 21, 2010 at 10:23 PM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Its not a myth, but the spearman attack animation set is very powerful, which is why I reduced spearman base defense from 3 to 1.
    So they don't have their attack reduced, just their defense?

    What do you mean by "powerful animation set"? They stab fast and repeatedly until they kill the enemy?

  9. #29

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    yes, that's about right.

  10. #30
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    PB did you remove those silly punching animations? Yes I have a long, sharp metal weapon in my hand, but I'll punch you with my fist instead

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  11. #31

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Captain Falcon needs no wimpy sticks!

  12. #32

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    PB did you remove those silly punching animations? Yes I have a long, sharp metal weapon in my hand, but I'll punch you with my fist instead
    I think they are gone, haven't played with animations for a while.

  13. #33

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Romans are like cheating

    the early campaign, 2 units of heavy cav + 2 or 3 generals = 300 or so man wrecking crew.

  14. #34
    Gnostiko's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Edit: When we will create a new version of the curent roster we will offer even weaker units for Palaeologian era.
    Because they were weaker units.
    Unless we're talking soleley about the reigns of Manuel II onward, I wouldn't necessarily say they were 'weaker'. Granted, we've lost the last of the Tagmata, but any weakness on the part of the Romans I would attribute more to strategic failure and politics than any general tactical shortcomings.

  15. #35

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Mourtadoi in my opinion are too good. Extraordinary unit, time of train 1 turn, peasante 4 turns. Cost and upkeep favor them again, the atack defence/missel atack is almost same. And are available in high numbers. All time deserve invade Greece for them if you are not Venice. People imagine, ah lets go in England we get best archers. No, no, no, venetians, bizantium and turks will make you cry at range.

    Kill Them All, Let God Sort Them Out!


  16. #36

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    does the HRE ever get better, I've never played a campaign as England which has seen them last longer than the first 100 turns.
    Balbor

    Former Creative Director
    Former Head Unit Modeller and Texture
    Fourth Age:Total War

  17. #37

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Because England didn't have the best archers in the world, it just used what it had intelligently. Unlike France.

    "Ooh, look at that marshy uphill with pits, caltrops and stakes. And are those thousands of bowmen on the sides?"
    "I know: let's charge!"

  18. #38

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    K/T, times changed. France have french archers now, scots guards, arbalesters, so now is, we make a nice range to range battle or we just send the Lancers.

    Kill Them All, Let God Sort Them Out!


  19. #39

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    The English get the best archers in terms of availability and even though venetian archers and mourtatoi have 5 attack, like retinue longbowmen, the retinue longbowmen have more accurate and heavier arrows (just from a projectile comparison, I'm not sure if there are other factors).

    The scots guard seem to be, one on one, better than the retinue longbowmen given they have the exact same ranged capabilities, but don't even come close in terms of availability.

  20. #40

    Default Re: weak byzantine troops

    Meese if I want a nice money maker with less trouble, of course I will play England. Kill scotts, invade Ireland and be happy. Can make same scenaroi with Portugal or Hre like invaders in Britania and geting via AoR the longbows.
    What I learn in this game is beside best archers, best infantry, best two handers, simplify and you get 1 super weapon named cavalry. Generals are only 9 bodyguards now, so no more nice charge with generals first 30 turns. Let see Miles are better than Mailed? Feudal are for all europeeans, so must be the cavalry after 1200. Than we face the archers supremacy of english, in terms of unit spam with french boys who got only the regular ones. But when you access Yeomans and all the good stuff, more available than scots, French got arbalesters in PLATE and scotts in PLATE. This mean bye bye dear english archers, welcome to cavalry charge, good armore and cheap 150 upkeep vulge guys.
    I played a lot all factions of plain SS, and RR-RC.
    I not like to play with no good archers factions ca HRE and Teutons, still I play them a lot. I was aprisonier of Aragon lot of time, because their special flavor and diversity for example.
    And archers even if are stacks of them are useless in a siege of Citadel.
    Back to topic, ERE have something great in their rooster what few said numbers. Their units of 100 scutati versus sargent spears of 63 is a key factor in wining. When use cvalari+ scolari, coverup by scutati, murtadoi, and spatari to vasileos, wining is so sweet.
    That why I love to crush them with Venice!

    Kill Them All, Let God Sort Them Out!


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