Crusader Kings 2

[hellheaven1987]

53,067 soldiers. HOW THE CAN HE RAISE 53K SOLDIERS?! ALL THAT WHILE ALSO AT WAR WITH FRANCE!

53k is not much; my Norman (Sicily) empire that has North Africa and part of Iberia (1/4) can rise that much men in full too.

[Mangalore]

After you have the first son, do away with your present wife and marry a wife who is chaste or celibate, or over 45. But chaste or celibate isn't a guarantee, in my current game my first rulers 4th wife who was a celibate 16 year old had a daugher when he was 73.

If you end up with more than one son, make the extras Bishops.

But that's really only good for 1 or 2 generations. After that it gets really messy, because you can't really control what you son does with his children. If your first ruler has one son and that son has 3 who make it to 16 and get married, you lose control over demesne. Then you end up wasting a lot of time and energy beating down rebellions.

I've played 3-4 games with gavelkind, and it always falls apart within a few generations because of rebellions by dynasty claimaints who want this duchy or that county. I never play gavelkind anymore. The demesne bonus just isn't worth it to me.

Yeah, managed to run off my rebellious sisters except one, make a deal with her and switch succession to elective. Got killed in a stupid little war south of Valencia, another Emir declared war against my 10 year old queen but we ended up with a major battle in which my army captured the enemy emir. Instant victory!

Peaced out but overall my only worry is how I can get Navarra to any decent size against the Muslims. Except the duchy of Barcelona all other kings have been squashed and my main successes were only when France or some other country intervened.

Currently trying to get Brittany as my queen is direct successor there and there are no sons. Still pretty interesting if that works out ok... had to off my baby brother (funny enough the king was still "The Holy"). I don't think CK2 is good for your social competence...

[xcorps]

I'm beginning to doubt my own comment on gavelkind. That Scotland game I was playing made me wonder. I ended up with Scotland, Ireland, Brittany, Sweden, the Kingdom of Sicily with only 2 counties, and the Duchy of Galatia. The day that I inherited Sweden, the 2 stronger Scottish Dukes rebelled, the Sicilian nobility rebelled, and the Galatian duke rebelled. All because the inheritance of Sweden caused the entirety of the Swedish nobility to rebel.

I'm wondering if having gavelkind would have prevented all that, because all the dukes that rebelled would have had a +35 from gavelkind and a +10 from dynasty. That in itself doesn't overcome the distance hit for Galatia and Sicily, but it may have stopped the Scot dukes from rebelling...stopping the chain reaction.

It's clear now that having a single duke with more than a couple of counties is a serious threat, but I didn't know that while I was forming the Empire. I was trying to undo my mistake by stripping the Duke of Lothian of his power, he had 6 counties. My personal levy was 6k and my vassal levy was 16k. Having to hire all three available mercenary companies hurt my income, but didn't kill it. Not having the levy troops really hurt bad, because the Duke of Galloway and the Duke of Brittany were off galavanting in North Africa, costing me 8k troops. It took almost 15 years to regain Sweden, and I almost lost Galatia and Sicily in the process. Even after regaining Sweden, I couldn't eliminate the threat of the Swedish Dukes because they had too much power for me to strip without causing Scottish rebellions. I could deal with two rebelling Swedes, but not 2 rebelling Swedes AND 2 rebelling Scots AND keep Sicily AND keep Galatia. It just wasn't possible. By the time my ruler died, I had marginal control over everything. When his heir took over, everything imploded. About 2 years into that war, I was excommunicated by the new Pope..game over.

Keeping part of Sicily was a big mistake. I should have gifted it to the Pope in it's entirety instead of trying to keep a foothold for future Crusades and kept the Kingship in name only. At least that way I would have had a bit of income. It wouldn't have mattered to the new Pope, but I would have been able to afford to pay him a 560 gold gift for opinion instead of getting excommunicated.

Perhaps dealing with power hungry heirs is easier than dealing with long distance chain rebellions, I'm not really sure at this point. Or maybe I should readjust my goals and just allow a dynastic heir have a long distance power base and independance. Not quite sure how to make a vassal independent except through surrendering. Maybe granting a Kingship? Anyone know?
That would actually be ideal, because you don't gain any significant income from having a Duke as a vassal, but you still have a titled dynasty member in play in case the dynasty tree in the de jure holdings dies off..keeping you in game without costing you anything.

[molonthegreat]

I'm beginning to doubt my own comment on gavelkind. That Scotland game I was playing made me wonder. I ended up with Scotland, Ireland, Brittany, Sweden, the Kingdom of Sicily with only 2 counties, and the Duchy of Galatia. The day that I inherited Sweden, the 2 stronger Scottish Dukes rebelled, the Sicilian nobility rebelled, and the Galatian duke rebelled. All because the inheritance of Sweden caused the entirety of the Swedish nobility to rebel.

I'm wondering if having gavelkind would have prevented all that, because all the dukes that rebelled would have had a +35 from gavelkind and a +10 from dynasty. That in itself doesn't overcome the distance hit for Galatia and Sicily, but it may have stopped the Scot dukes from rebelling...stopping the chain reaction.

It's clear now that having a single duke with more than a couple of counties is a serious threat, but I didn't know that while I was forming the Empire. I was trying to undo my mistake by stripping the Duke of Lothian of his power, he had 6 counties. My personal levy was 6k and my vassal levy was 16k. Having to hire all three available mercenary companies hurt my income, but didn't kill it. Not having the levy troops really hurt bad, because the Duke of Galloway and the Duke of Brittany were off galavanting in North Africa, costing me 8k troops. It took almost 15 years to regain Sweden, and I almost lost Galatia and Sicily in the process. Even after regaining Sweden, I couldn't eliminate the threat of the Swedish Dukes because they had too much power for me to strip without causing Scottish rebellions. I could deal with two rebelling Swedes, but not 2 rebelling Swedes AND 2 rebelling Scots AND keep Sicily AND keep Galatia. It just wasn't possible. By the time my ruler died, I had marginal control over everything. When his heir took over, everything imploded. About 2 years into that war, I was excommunicated by the new Pope..game over.

Keeping part of Sicily was a big mistake. I should have gifted it to the Pope in it's entirety instead of trying to keep a foothold for future Crusades and kept the Kingship in name only. At least that way I would have had a bit of income. It wouldn't have mattered to the new Pope, but I would have been able to afford to pay him a 560 gold gift for opinion instead of getting excommunicated.

Perhaps dealing with power hungry heirs is easier than dealing with long distance chain rebellions, I'm not really sure at this point. Or maybe I should readjust my goals and just allow a dynastic heir have a long distance power base and independance. Not quite sure how to make a vassal independent except through surrendering. Maybe granting a Kingship? Anyone know?
That would actually be ideal, because you don't gain any significant income from having a Duke as a vassal, but you still have a titled dynasty member in play in case the dynasty tree in the de jure holdings dies off..keeping you in game without costing you anything.

Well I would suggest dividing your massive Empire a bit among your dynasty since the distance penalty is enormous but I would still stay the hell away from Gavelkind, since there is nothing worse than having your King die when he have five underage sons and having to spend the next 10 years with your new King conquering back your core territories that you lost to your family. I go for agnatic gavelkind as soon as possible and avoid gavelkind at any cost.

[grumph]

simple question her: who know where the crap the button is to make multiple armies/fleets ONE army?

[xcorps]

Click and drag to make sure you create the selection box to select all the armies. The army list will appear. At the top, in the blue bar, are two arrows pointing toward each other. Armies can be merged only in the same county.

FYI, when you go to split armies and fleets you cannot split mercenary companies, mercenary fleets, or holy orders.

[grumph]

ok, thanks. i didnt think of dragging a box around the army. does anyone happen to know if you stary with the french in 1066 and you marry a sister of the king of france if i can inherit the kingdom of france? i married hsi sister, murdered his brother and now his heir is OUT of his hous while my son is much closer to the king then the one inheriting it. do i have to kill the kings wife? did i need to marry his brother to one of my sisters? cant a count inherit a kingdom?

[xcorps]

Click on the ruler (or any titled nobility, and then keep clicking on the leige until it's the ruler) of france. Then click on his shield. When you click on the shield a screen will open up showing all the counties and duchies that are part of the Kingdom. Click on claimaints. That shows every person who has a potential claim. As long as you keep killing the king/heir, eventually each of those people will make a run for the Kingship.

Eventually, your heir from the sister you married wiill show up on that list. Based on the succession law in France, your heir will have a pressable claim, but not a likely inheret, unless there's some pandemic among the nobles. You will have to press his claim, which means war with France and probably its allies.

Even though your son is closer to the King in a familial sense, he is not the successor because of the succession laws. Women can't inherit, and therefore your son has a smaller claim to the throne than the son of the Kings male relative.

A count can inherit a Kingdom. Even an unlanded noble can inherit, because the succession laws don't bother with titles.

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Marriage_Guide
http://paradoxianlp.com/2012/02/crus...aws-explained/
http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/w...cession_Crisis

[grumph]

thanks, i didnt knwo that. can anyone advise me a good starting person to begin with? i already tried some kings in spain, france and denmark, some counts n dukes in france n germany but keep getting wiped out or lose the crown through wars, rebellions after succesion and jihads into my territory.

[xcorps]

I'd suggest either the Duke of Munster or the Count of Desmond in Ireland.

Either will allow you to come to terms with some of the concepts of the game without putting a whole lot of pressure on you to defend your holdings. You can expand throughout Ireland, eventually create the Kingdom. You can get a taste of fighting Holy Wars in Iberia, and you can try to expand into Brittany as well. Scotland might poke around in Ulster, but England usually leaves you alone. Wales is also a potential growth area.

Any of the counties in Brittany are also decent starts. You can grow into Ireland and Wales, and you are close to Iberia as well. France might pose a problem with claims on a few counties if you aren't careful.

[grumph]

i honestly found count desmond the hardest expirience i had in this game. no daugthers, no realms to give my son, im losing prestige, and i need mercenaries to win wars. sucks. i got wiped out after the neighbouring duke decided he didnt like my heir.

[hellheaven1987]

Duke of Apulia is best for beginner.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I quite like gavelkind. I don't have any trouble with it. I've just switched to progemiature as 75 years or so as Denmark, and I simply invest in only the capital province, whilst snapping up useful holdings as the opportunity presents.

[molonthegreat]

I quite like gavelkind. I don't have any trouble with it. I've just switched to progemiature as 75 years or so as Denmark, and I simply invest in only the capital province, whilst snapping up useful holdings as the opportunity presents.

Well I like having two duchies under my direct control and as many baronies in my main province as possible which means that I have about 10 castles under me which means that gavelkind is a pain since you have to revoke a lot of titles if you have more than one son and haven't been able to make the non-heirs bishops.

[xcorps]

i honestly found count desmond the hardest expirience i had in this game. no daugthers, no realms to give my son, im losing prestige, and i need mercenaries to win wars. sucks.

By the time your first leige dies, you should have at least half of Ireland with pretty good stability. It's possible to get all of Ireland, but it's creates a lot of disruption on inheritance.
Once you take care of the potential rebellions with your second leige, wrapping up Ireland as a kingdom should go pretty quickly, within 10 years or so. Once you create the title of Kingdom, you should be in position to have a dynasty member married somewhere in Brittany or Wales...or have enough claimaints in your realm to press for war.

If you need a daughter, get a 16 year old wife with +fertility through traits. The prestige isn't really that important with your first leige, you have to focus more on setting the stage for a stable realm and large dynasty.

If you want to start with an actual Kingdom, Scotland. You can play Scotland without worrying about attacks and there is immediate room for de jure claim expansions in the Duchy of the Isles and created or marriage claims in Wales and the Duchies of Ireland. England isn't really ever a threat unless you are weak by the time England stablilizes and someone makes a run on Cumberland. You have to watch the power of the Dukes, they are pretty solid at start. Pick them off slowly and use Court Jester and plots. First thing you should do is increase Crown Authority to medium and figure out how you want to keep Tevitdale (?) from passing to the Duke of Northumberland. You may need to deal with a rebellion from Atholl within a year (dynasty member, iirc). The Duke of Moray also doesn't like you, but that's to your advantage once you get Crown Authority to medium. You start with 2 sons and no wife. Your dynasty tree includes a pair of half brothers who are your vassals and a brother who is untitled. You can't dictate the marriage of your brother unfortunately, because he is a vassal of one of the half brothers.
Personal stats aren't great, but State stats are ok. Finding a quality bride will be easy enough.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well I like having two duchies under my direct control and as many baronies in my main province as possible which means that I have about 10 castles under me which means that gavelkind is a pain since you have to revoke a lot of titles if you have more than one son and haven't been able to make the non-heirs bishops.

Well this isn't a game about raw power. I like that you bend to tradition. On my first go of trying to change things in Denmark my vassals successfully revolted over it.

[hellheaven1987]

Well this isn't a game about raw power. I like that you bend to tradition. On my first go of trying to change things in Denmark my vassals successfully revolted over it.

More lands = more money. This game you want a lot of income every month, as much as possible.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I know, but I've never had a Gavelkind character that couldn't easily hit his max demense size. Well, unless we're talking my wee count in the arse end of the HRE.

[grumph]

By the time your first leige dies, you should have at least half of Ireland with pretty good stability. It's possible to get all of Ireland, but it's creates a lot of disruption on inheritance.
Once you take care of the potential rebellions with your second leige, wrapping up Ireland as a kingdom should go pretty quickly, within 10 years or so. Once you create the title of Kingdom, you should be in position to have a dynasty member married somewhere in Brittany or Wales...or have enough claimaints in your realm to press for war.

If you need a daughter, get a 16 year old wife with +fertility through traits. The prestige isn't really that important with your first leige, you have to focus more on setting the stage for a stable realm and large dynasty.

If you want to start with an actual Kingdom, Scotland. You can play Scotland without worrying about attacks and there is immediate room for de jure claim expansions in the Duchy of the Isles and created or marriage claims in Wales and the Duchies of Ireland. England isn't really ever a threat unless you are weak by the time England stablilizes and someone makes a run on Cumberland. You have to watch the power of the Dukes, they are pretty solid at start. Pick them off slowly and use Court Jester and plots. First thing you should do is increase Crown Authority to medium and figure out how you want to keep Tevitdale (?) from passing to the Duke of Northumberland. You may need to deal with a rebellion from Atholl within a year (dynasty member, iirc). The Duke of Moray also doesn't like you, but that's to your advantage once you get Crown Authority to medium. You start with 2 sons and no wife. Your dynasty tree includes a pair of half brothers who are your vassals and a brother who is untitled. You can't dictate the marriage of your brother unfortunately, because he is a vassal of one of the half brothers.
Personal stats aren't great, but State stats are ok. Finding a quality bride will be easy enough.

i thinkt he main problem was that my heir killed me, and got discovered. and the pope REALLY didnt like him insta excommunication and crusade against me:p

i dunno hwo i can get so much of ireland so quick though. ireland lacks any mass daugthers to marry n kill the other claimants to get lands quick, and mercenaries are too expensive to qonquer whole ireland with. and im landlocked by the duke in the way of his big threath to my capital. i can imaginge evry other count being easier then this one. heck, i dont even WANT more then one son directly under me. i want nephews ect. to dictate into good alliances and getting them to inherit lands, and then marry his daughter with my next heir and kill the rest. no need for brother fights and large scale civl war evry time i die of illness/ get assasinated on young age.

[molonthegreat]

Well this isn't a game about raw power. I like that you bend to tradition. On my first go of trying to change things in Denmark my vassals successfully revolted over it.

Well it may not be but having 15,000 men in my personal demesne and a massive income sure makes it easier to deal with my vassals, so when I start out as a count as I usually do I try to take two duchies near my starting place and then I keep them throughout the game using them as my base of power. However the best thing really is to have as many baronies as possible in one province since when having both your steward collecting taxes and your marshal training levies in a fully maxed out province with four castles under your control makes for that province to be incredibly powerful, as for vassals I have played since it came out now so I know most tricks with dealing with unruly vassals but I can hardly say that my first game was a success.