Crusader Kings 2

[General Maximus]

Damned Spanish Moors in Old Gods are ridiculously powerful; they conquered Aquitaine, then suffered a Crusade and lost it, then conquered it again. I bet Pope is going to call a Crusade against soon, and the game only reaches 946 now.

Thankfully we didn't get an even earlier start date. It was only some time ago that the same Umayyad dynasty in Andalusia used to be known as Umayyad Caliphate, controlled entire Muslim world as a single entity and was THIS large. Even Pope would shiver in his boots when thinking of calling a Crusade on them.

Abbasid revolt changed it all and reduced them to Andalusia.

Still a lot of fun to have with a possibly strong Muslim state in Andalusia, an independent pope to submit and a the vikings to check. You could probably secure the Empire with alliance with your neighbors, making sure they stay in power to keep order in the world and ensure yourself every neighbor is christian. It wouldn't be the hardest challenge to complete for you but that would be RP heavy imo.

Indeed, I agree with you. Marriage is the only way I found to keep the empire together for at least a hundred years, when it would become a de-jure land. I would also focus on liberating the Iberian peninsula (and then giving them independence) to ensure I face no Jihads and the unending train of 200-man armies coming in from far reaches of Persia.

At the moment the biggest problem is Slavic revolts. They just don't stop, pop up a few months after I crush the last one, and drain my levy to zero. I wish crushing revolts had some influence on

[ccllnply]

Just had a dynastic decline of Biblical proportions in my current game. Ridiculously depressing and realistic

Started as a ruler designer Polski chief in TOG start date with a custom dynasty obviously. Conquered all the tribes around me and was crowned King of Polska within 15 years. About 100 years later, I have another great King. Not great with the stats but is the first King of Polska to convert to Catholic and goes on to smash the pagans that surround him to carve out a nice kingdom. Unfortunately, on the homefront, he only manages to produce female heirs. This is where it all goes down hill.

His eldest daughter is quite skilled, but she is murdered leaving his fairly average second daughter. He dies, she takes over but no one rebels to start and I thing this might be alright. However, after a couple of years the massive Kingdom of Kiev to my east declares war and not fully understanding the mechanics, I turn a certain victory into a total defeat and lose a big chunk of the kingdom. Then my vassals decide to rebel to place someone not of my dynasty on the throne and I lose and an reduced to a powerless duchess

Now that character had 5 children, but the two boys died early leaving 3 daughters. When that character died, her eldest daughter inherited but died two years later. Then her sister, now ruler, died in childbirth giving birth to a sickly son. He took over as ruler but died soon after, leaving his aunt as ruler. However, soon after that she died as well with no children. Within 13 years, I had gone through 4 characters.

This left the only heir to be a duchess in Lorraine who was 49, married to a German duke in a regular marriage and with one child, of course a daughter who wasn't of her dynasty. I did everything I could and managed to divorce my husband and the next two people in line for my titles which left a cousin of my dynasty to inherit. Unfortunately she was in her 50's with a dead husband and her only child had been a daughter not of her dynasty who I had murdered with my last character. The next 3 successors to my titles are all of different dynasties and I can't raise the money or plot power to kill even one of them so it's just a waiting game till my character dies at this stage.

I did plan to play as another member of this dynasty once she dies to continue on this game so I had a look at the family tree. There are only 8 living members and 4 of those (of course the 3 who would have a claim to the Kingdom of Polska) are old women with children who aren't of their dynasty. The other one's include a count who has a daughter of his own dynasty but she has a son who isn't.

And finally there is the unlanded character who has the imbecile trait and has a wife with the stutter trait and together they have a 15 year old daughter who has a stutter and is slow

I used my current character to marry that child to the most fertile man I could find it a martilineal marriage. His traits gave him a 25% fertility bonus but just as she turned 15 he must have got that religious event and instead of choosing hedonism, choose celibacy which gives a 20% fertility penalty. The misfortune continues. Pretty devastating for what was Eastern Europe's most powerful family only 50 years before.

[General Maximus]

The 'great rulers with only female heirs' problem is frequent in my games, and almost always breaks it.

Started as a custom-created Roman Emperor in 867. He was just an average guy with no trait other than 'patient' (has bonuses but still doesn't take age). First thing I did after defeating Aghlabids was to invade Abbasids and reconquer duchies one by one. No waiting for the truce. Then I took Jerusalem. After that came a civil war but he managed to crush that. Muslim peasant revolts were costlier, but they were also dealt with albeit at the cost of draining the entire pool of levies.

The sixteen year old starting Roman Emperor was now 20. He personally led every major battle, gaining some good traits and a scar for himself. His military was somewhere around 16. Great. I got him married to some good Karling princess with quick stats, who just came of age. Hoping that there would be a son to continue the restoration of Rome.

Wrong. 10 years went by, he had reconquered all of Africa except for Morocco, all of the Balkans, and Sicily. His military was 18, a whole set of good traits, and he was 30. But still no son. Then he got a claim on the city of Rome which I began to forge right from the first day of the game. Within no time the Papacy was stormed and crushed. Then he mended the Schism and the reconquest of Italy (whose lords remained Catholic) began. By the time he was 35, and still no son.

Then suddenly his wife turns out to be with a kid. Good. Now finally someone to give this huge empire to. But no, it turns out to be a daughter. I say "Fine enough. We shall wait." Next year it is another child, but again a daughter. Then two years later it is the same, and again the year after that.

The emperor is about 40. Roman Empire decision is already done, and reconquest of Hispania has began at full pace. Emperor still leads battles, but still gets only daughters.

Seven years later and almost 5 more daughters. Hispania is nearly conquered. Emperor is the biggest truce-breaker the world has ever seen. But for some damned reason he can't have a son. Many civil wars are there because of 'female heir' penalty.

Then the almost 50 year old emperor has another daughter, this time an illegitimate one with a courtier. I punch the screen, imprison both the courtier and the emperor's damn Karling wife (after divorcing) and banish them. Next I married the emperor to a young lady, also with good traits. Next year, she announces a child. Good. Finally either a son, or the purgatory to the empire.

It was a daughter. A hunchback one at that. Another one next year. Finally, the 57 year old emperor leads a battle and gets maimed. A month later, he dies. Having ten daughters and no son.

The little 13 year old girl succeeds her father. To my vain, she has horrible traits despite having a good tutor. Then the feared revolts start everywhere leaving me with nothing but a Latium and Thrace, and a few loyal dukes in new territories with no levies to give me. I smash the keyboard and ragequit, after having almost completely restored the Roman Empire save Gaul and Britannia.

[hellheaven1987]

Female or male heir does not matter, what matter most is to educate your heir properly.

Which is why I always be the educator myself.

[ccllnply]

@General Maximus: Wow bro, I nearly cried reading that It's ok I know dem feels. Hug?

@Hellheaven: Having daughters doesn't effect the player immediately but in the situation I had where my characters kept dying off so quickly it basically screwed my whole game since I was forced to play as characters that the AI had complete control over for several decades. Which of course meant that they put all their daughters in regular marriages, even their heirs and landed daughters.

You're right about educating your heir yourself though. I'll have to start doing that and stop being so lazy.

[hellheaven1987]

@Hellheaven: Having daughters doesn't effect the player immediately but in the situation I had where my characters kept dying off so quickly it basically screwed my whole game since I was forced to play as characters that the AI had complete control over for several decades. Which of course meant that they put all their daughters in regular marriages, even their heirs and landed daughters.

Which is why you have to constantly track your other clan members and how they are doing; I always give land and title to my own clan members only, so monitor their developments are not that difficult overall (just it take a lot of time, like checking every duke and their heir for every two years to make sure their offsprings have proper tutor). If any of your female clan member is above 20 years old and has not married, hire a noble and maternal marry that clan member.

[Ulyaoth]

But unless you have a top education trait yourself you'll always have less than optimal heirs.

[hellheaven1987]

But unless you have a top education trait yourself you'll always have less than optimal heirs.

It requires about three to four generations of breeding program, but that is why you always want to update your court for that.

[ccllnply]

It requires about three to four generations of breeding program, but that is why you always want to update your court for that.

This talk has gotten too technical for me. Describe that to me in role-playing terms

Also what does updating your court do if you're educating your heir yourself by the way?

[The Despondent Mind]

Is there a some kind of bug which makes the pope constantly send you requests for "Arrange Marriage" ? That is, the pope is constantly asking me to marry one of my courtiers himself . It has stopped lately but still I'm curious .

[ccllnply]

Is there a some kind of bug which makes the pope constantly send you requests for "Arrange Marriage" ? That is, the pope is constantly asking me to marry one of my courtiers himself . It has stopped lately but still I'm curious .

Yeah it's a bug. Just keep rejecting it, eventually he stops.

[hellheaven1987]

Also what does updating your court do if you're educating your heir yourself by the way?

You can only educate two kids at anytime, so what if you have dozens of kids + your other clan members' kids + your courtiers' kids?

The answer is obviously you need several different tutors in your court anytime.

So what is "updating" your court? The meaning is to replace the old, not so useful courtiers with new, young and useful courtiers from outside. There are several ways to do that:

- Always let your male courtiers marry useful wife.
- Give your old courtiers a temple or city title to "retire" them.
- If your court is small, monitor the education of your courtiers' kids to make sure they grow into something you want.
- Always try to get Lustful trait.

[General Maximus]

In a republic, I always keep 5-6 'retainer families' at my court, one each for being educated in a specific job, filling up specific councillor position and educating the kids.

What is the optimal court size, by the way? Anything above 25 and everyone starts getting fertility penalty?

[hellheaven1987]

Fertility penalty become noticeable once court size hits 40; hence why one advantage to play Pagan was that you can get rid old female courtier by giving her a temple, since after a few generation the size of old female courtiers become very large.

[General Maximus]

So, there won't be any penalty below 40 courtiers?

[hellheaven1987]

So, there won't be any penalty below 40 courtiers?

Technically I never know there is fertility penalty when the court size is too big, but past experience did suggest there is a noticeable reducation of birth rate once your court hit 40.

That does not seem apply on your own character however, nor apply to Muslim.

[General Maximus]

Technically I never know there is fertility penalty when the court size is too big, but past experience did suggest there is a noticeable reducation of birth rate once your court hit 40.

That does not seem apply on your own character however, nor apply to Muslim.

But the wives do get the problem, don't they.

Ah, now I have to clean up my Carolingian court. Too many useless courtiers to stop the kids from coming in.

[mike^_^]

In common/defines.lua

CHILD_BIRTH_TO_PREGNANCY_WAIT = 3,
	BASE_NR_OF_CHILDREN_PER_COUPLE = 2,
	EXTRA_NR_OF_CHILDREN_FOR_PLAYERS = 2,
	COURT_SIZE_CHILD_PENALTY_THRESHOLD = 30,

Might be different now (using old patch)

[General Maximus]

In common/defines.lua

CHILD_BIRTH_TO_PREGNANCY_WAIT = 3,
    BASE_NR_OF_CHILDREN_PER_COUPLE = 2,
    EXTRA_NR_OF_CHILDREN_FOR_PLAYERS = 2,
    COURT_SIZE_CHILD_PENALTY_THRESHOLD = 30,

Might be different now (using old patch)

It is still 30, I just checked.

[hellheaven1987]

Quick question, how many men Seljuk horde has?