Wellington: The Iron Duke

[Didz]

Just been watching this on British TV and thought you might find it interesting.

[Jihada]

Excellent and so much filmed on location. I watched to the end of the period in India and I'll watch the rest tomorrow. A welcome change after England's dismal World Cup anyway.

[Didz]

A really appalling documentary about Waterloo on afterwards though, regurgitating all the usual rubbish.

[Wegen7 die Große]

Excellent videos, it really did help me learn more about Wellesley.

[Didz]

I beleive that the video's I posted above are only the first of several programmes covering different stages of his life and career. I just caught the final episode which covered Waterloo to his death, and that was really enlightening. I didn't actually realise how unpopular he became in later life, apparently he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

And I have to say I felt sorry for his poor wife Kitty.

[Clodius]

Richard Holmes is on UK TV a lot having done shows on Churchill, Cromwell, the American Revolutionary War, Arnhem, the 1914 Flanders campaign etc .

Where he does do well is in actually walking (or riding) around the battlefields instead of relying on fancy graphics and anachronistic visual props (its a battle so I'll borrow a tank) like his main TV rivals Peter and Dan Snow.

And unlike them he is an actual soldier of sorts - in fact a Brigadier in the Territorial Army.

At least you can see he's earning his fees as comes puffing over the hill in his Barbour jacket.

Highly recommend his book 'Redcoat' and the English Civil War book he did with Peter Young.

Would just love to see him tear into someone though - he really only seems to write and broadcast about his military heroes - never the villains.

[EmperorBatman999]

I beleive that the video's I posted above are only the first of several programmes covering different stages of his life and career. I just caught the final episode which covered Waterloo to his death, and that was really enlightening. I didn't actually realise how unpopular he became in later life, apparently he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

And I have to say I felt sorry for his poor wife Kitty.

I read the reason why he was called the Iron Duke was because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by his many enemies.

[Didz]

I read the reason why he was called the Iron Duke was because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by his many enemies.

Yep! so the story goes.

In 1818, Wellington was given a post in Lord Liverpool's Tory government. In 1827, he became commander in chief of the British army, but in 1828 reluctantly accepted the post of prime minister. He believed in strong, authoritative government and an isolationist policy, although he antagonised sections of his party by forcing through the Catholic Emancipation Act (1829). His opposition to parliamentary reform made him unpopular, and he earned the nickname of the 'Iron Duke' when he erected iron shutters on the windows of his London home, Apsley House, to prevent them being smashed by angry crowds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/histori..._duke_of.shtml

He was certanily very unpopular in that period of his life.

[God of War,]

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

[MrT]

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

Really?

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Really?

Let say that he and his brits did a nice act of figuration during that Prussian victory with 18% of British soldiers. At least they were there, and didnt miss the battle, like for 95% of the rest of the napoleonic wars.
Nice effort for once.

Why the Iron Duke by the way? Something to do with a special hiding/fleeing ability he had or just the result of 200 years of brainwashing propaganda in Britain?

[Didz]

Why the Iron Duke by the way? Something to do with a special hiding/fleeing ability he had or just the result of 200 years of brainwashing propaganda in Britain?

No! As EmperorBatman999 has already explained he was called 'The Iron Duke' because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by mobs of ordinary citizens who hated his guts.

If you watch the video's you will discover that Wellington was not a very popular person in later life, he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

[MrT]

Not this Waterloo and anti-British thing again. You know there were other battles that Wellington fought which he won?

[Gauloisier de la Gauloiserie]

Not this Waterloo and anti-British thing again. You know there were other battles that Wellington fought which he won?

Against the Grande Armée, not against occupation troops poorly lead by Napoléon's brother, and without heavily outnumbering his opponent?
Oh really, which ones?

Sorry if I'm not impressed by generals fighting behind coalition troops with 20-40% max. of the troops in presence, avoiding 1v1 fights, fleeing oops sorry I meant "tacticaly retreating".
And later on taking pride of all the job by rewriting History, after drying the pants he wetted when he thought the Prussians wont come in time... no seriously.

Any serious napoleonic enthousiast would have hard time to make him enter a top 10 of the napoleonic wars generals.

Now concerning the video and what he did after the Prussian victory of Waterloo, I dont know. And I dont care.
I am just annoyed by people glorifying such an imposture. If I were German (Prussian) I'd feel insulted too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pensez-vous que j'aurais sacrifié le sang des Français pour ma seule vanité?

Non! Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés et la coalition n'aurait pas survécu à un tel coup de tonnerre! Je venais de défaire les Prussiens avant qu'ils aient fait leur jonction avec Wellington et j'avais lancé Grouchy à la poursuite de leur Armée en retraite afin de me mettre à l'abri d'une mauvaise surprise! Une fois les Prussiens et les Anglais défaits, les Autrichiens auraient négocié la paix et les Libéraux auraient pris la place des conservateurs en Angleterre. Dès lors, la Russie se retrouvait isolée, l'argent britannique ne finançait plus les coalitions et tout redevenait possible!
- Napoléon Bonaparte.

*Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés*
*Without the arrival of Blücher, the English would have been crushed*

But still, there are people who continue to praise wellingthing.
Properly unbelievable.

[MrT]

Well sure Soult and Ney, maybe weren't the most capable of generals but Suchet and Marmont were definitley capable. And yes the best troops did not go to Spain but one should also note that the British army also had many problems he had to cope with. It was one of the slowest in Europe on campaign and terrible at finding supplies. Nonetheless even the French thought that Wellington was a skilled general who knew how to take advantage of the defensive capabilities the peninsula offered. I am not saying he was as good as Napoleon, not at all, but he was no joke Geraud Durouc said.

[Didz]

I think I'm happy to accept the judgement of those who were actually alive at the time.

[EmperorBatman999]

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

Wellington is overrated as a general, but I wouldn't go to say he was absolutely terrible.
I'd say Wellington got lucky on most of his battles, if he were to be faced with the best of the Grand Armee before 1812 commanded by a healthy Napoleon on fairer terrain, Wellington would lose.

[Francisco de Miranda]

Against the Grande Armée, not against occupation troops poorly lead by Napoléon's brother, and without heavily outnumbering his opponent?
Oh really, which ones?

Sorry if I'm not impressed by generals fighting behind coalition troops with 20-40% max. of the troops in presence, avoiding 1v1 fights, fleeing oops sorry I meant "tacticaly retreating".
And later on taking pride of all the job by rewriting History, after drying the pants he wetted when he thought the Prussians wont come in time... no seriously.

Any serious napoleonic enthousiast would have hard time to make him enter a top 10 of the napoleonic wars generals.

Now concerning the video and what he did after the Prussian victory of Waterloo, I dont know. And I dont care.
I am just annoyed by people glorifying such an imposture. If I were German (Prussian) I'd feel insulted too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés*
*Without the arrival of Blücher, the English would have been crushed*

But still, there are people who continue to praise wellingthing.
Properly unbelievable.

Really?
So do you REALLY think that the FRENCH Grande Arme was French?

Active 1805–15 Country France Size At its height in 1812 consisted of 554,500 men:
• 300,000 Frenchmen and Dutchmen
• 95,000 Poles
• 35,000 Austrians
• 30,000 Italians[1]
• 24,000 Bavarians
• 20,000 Saxons
• 20,000 Prussians
• 17,000 Westphalians
• 15,000 Swiss
• 3,500 Croats

QED.

Source: quick look on Wikipedia

SO WAS NAPOLEON HIDING BEHIND ALL THESE FOREIGNERS TOOOOOOO??

[Prince of Essling]

Well sure Soult and Ney, maybe weren't the most capable of generals but Suchet and Marmont were definitley capable. And yes the best troops did not go to Spain but one should also note that the British army also had many problems he had to cope with. It was one of the slowest in Europe on campaign and terrible at finding supplies. Nonetheless even the French thought that Wellington was a skilled general who knew how to take advantage of the defensive capabilities the peninsula offered. I am not saying he was as good as Napoleon, not at all, but he was no joke Geraud Durouc said.

Sorry but you are partially wrong about troop quality. The French troops that came with Napoleon in late 1808 were in the main the cream of the Grande Armee - see the Orbat as at 15 November 1808 http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/808KSCJ.pdf Most of these troops stayed in the Peninsula - though of course over the duration of the Peninsula War the quality of units was diluted as reinforcements were in the main conscripts.

[MrT]

Well Vimiero was fought before Napoleon and his better army arrived, Talavera, which was inconclusive, was in july 1809 and the war of the fifth coalition, where Napoleon and much of the better parts of the army were taken, started in april so your list of troops at 1808 doesn´t really tell too much about the quality of troops Wellington faced. I´m not agreeing with Drakon that the forces that Wellington faced were just occupation troops but most units did not represent the best french had to offer, except when Napoleon was there personally.