Deadliest Warrior - Spartan Vs Samurai

[Biggreenfellow]

Because the Roman Legionnaire would first destroy the advantage of the Hoplit by throwing a spear into the Shield.

Would a, relatively, soft/bendable spear pierce an aspis? I agree it would be interesting, regardless, especially since Romans pretty much copied the hoplite tactics and perfected them.

spartans for all there might, how come they never conquer the greek world? in any kind of open field battle spartans would get their ass kick by any kind of range units. just this 1 very simple fact, = samurai victory.

Nonsense. Read your history before you make grand claims like these. The Spartans never sought to rule the whole of Greece, eventhough they beat Athens and their allies on more then one occassion. As for your rubbish 'ranged pwns them' argument, have you ever seen an aspis? No arrow gets passed that.

I
First in equipment
I once hold a handmade shield(quite large I think it can compare to aspis) and I realize that it reduce not only moving ability but also view vision
In the normal fighting way a Hoplite use shield to cover from half the face to his knee so the aspis surely affect his view vision

I don't think that the full helmet(Corinthian type?) is too popular but attic type is used more so the face is quite open that mean he more vulnerable to Samurai Archery(straight shot aim direct to vulnerable area)

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Hoplite is the secondary weapon is too similar to a dagger(I mean it not long)

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Spartan main train is to fight enemy face to face in a long line not against a quick flexible enemy who mostly train in individual fight
That mean if a katana user dodge to the side his shield cover(out of vision) and slash to vulnerable part without armor that is the end of Spartan
if the Samurai used Yari it might be a bigger problem for Spartan because the longer range and good piercing ability
Use shield to block might end up that the shield have a big hold with the Yari stuck inside and end up as Samurai overcome Spartan in sword fight
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I think I read in some translated book that Nodachi and Daikatana have high durability and heavier that katana so it can use as blunt weapon in the time western armor being adopt in Japan

You have a point with the vision thing, but the Spartan would have had major training with the shield, and I still can't see a samurai getting past it too fast for a Spartan to turn and block it, but that would greately depend on the skill of the fighters involved. Also, a Spartan's main weapon would be his spear, not the daggerlike weapon. I also seem to recall that they used larger swords in addition to the daggerlike ones, not sure if it was standard issue though. Also, shield + short range weapon beats longer twohanded weapons, because the closer you get, the less useful a longer weapon becomes.

I don't know what you mean with a yari as I know little of Japanese weaponry, but I don't see anything short of a 2handed axe or something destroying an aspis. Also, the last bit I quoted made no sense to me at all, are you saying swords could be used as blunt weapons to pierce armour?!

In the end, it all comes down to the individual warrior. Who makes the first mistake, who is more skilled, who is having a bad day...

[Shaio]

In the end, it all comes down to the individual warrior. Who makes the first mistake, who is more skilled, who is having a bad day...

who has a rock behind there foot at the wrong time.

as to yari, well i wouldn't want to be the samurai that goes into a spear off with a spartan, that's playing way to much to the other guys strengths.

the no dachi and diodachi(SP??) are two handed katanas, i assume swords that are actually heavy or long enough to require two hands, as opposed to the katana which just has a two handed grip- and decent reach, i remember reading once they were anti cavalry weapons.

[nameless]

Would a, relatively, soft/bendable spear pierce an aspis? I agree it would be interesting, regardless, especially since Romans pretty much copied the hoplite tactics and perfected them.

The pilum has several functions.

If it hits the guy, it kills him, end of story.

If it hits the guy's shield, it's suppose to warp and bend to the point that it makes the shield useless. Piercing is a bonus but the idea is for it to get fixed into it and I'm sure Roman soldiers train properly to throw these things with good force.

If it hits the ground, the opponent can't throw it back.

The romans did not perfect them, they realized that Hoplite tactics were outdated and therefore moved onto the maniple system which they took from the Samnites.

[TW Junkie]

as to yari, well i wouldn't want to be the samurai that goes into a spear off with a spartan, that's playing way to much to the other guys strengths.

A Spear off with a guy who's holding a spear with one hand? Hmm, I think I'd take the guy who can have both hands on his spear at the same time.

[Sensei Kiisu]

Samurai Win -

The Samurai Sword, be it Katana or Waka-zashi, is one of the most deadly melee weapons in history, and could easilly shread through bronze used by the spartans, it is folded, razor sharp steel for goodness sake (:,

Not to mention that the Samurai warriors where trained in non-weapon combat as opposed to relying on their spear and shield, and unlike the typical Spartan warrior who depends on the rest of his unit to survive, the Samurai were masters of single man combat,

however, of course there are weaknesses of each, and if it came to facing a Greek Phlanx, the Samurai would likely not be able to penertrate the mass of shield and spears..

[Shaio]

A Spear off with a guy who's holding a spear with one hand? Hmm, I think I'd take the guy who can have both hands on his spear at the same time.

As opposed to the guy who can block?

Also at guy above, the katana is greatly overrated, admittedly its about the best weapon you could have for cutting through unarmored peasants, its awesomely light for its length, but that's about it.

It is not a lightsaber, it wont cut metal except in perfect circumstances.

also today's katanas would be made out of much better steels then those back then could be.

[TW Junkie]

As opposed to the guy who can block?

Yeah why not? The Samurai would have little need to block as he will be far faster and able to easily dodge the slow moving tank that is the Spartan. He will be far more accurate with his spear holding it with both hands and could easily inflict multiple minor injuries in a short period of time in order to handicap the Spartan before dealing a final blow.

EDIT: so the Spartan and turn easily big deal. Do this: go outside and find a tree. Run around it in a circle, see how long it takes you to get dizzy. After that, just stand in one place, spin around in a circle and see how quickly you become disoriented and dizzy. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. This is simply all a Samurai would have to do in a 1vs1 battle with a Spartan (or anyone with a shield/spear combo). The Spartan will be disoriented and stabbing blindly trying to hit him in no time, while the Samurai can easily out maneuver and make accurate strikes. Also, if he manages to get behind the Spartan for even a slight moment its game over.

[Shaio]

The spartan probably would be standing in one spot, used that as an example, more likely spartan would be on offense, i just used the example to point out you cant circle faster then someone turns.

I dunno why you'd thin k its easyier for a guy holding a spear with two hands to get past a shield then it is a guy holding it in one hand to get past a spear.

The way i see it, there both heavily armored and have to strike an unarmored part of the enemy, for either to win the other has to make a mistake, the spartan having a sheild gives him more room to make mistakes, the samuri has to get past the sheild before even thinking of making an attack, the spartan can just barrel forward and keep stabbing if he wants. Whereas for the Samuri its a constant test of skill endurance and speed keeping distance, dodging attacking, the Samuri is probably better in this, but it requires a constant and far more serious effort then the other guy.

the Samuris skill is more constantly tested, therefore in my mind he has more chances to fail.

[Juggernaut]

Well they didn't test the katana against the shield in the ep, but the tested the kanabo(sp?) much heavier, this studded two handed club, a shield breaking weapon by intent i think, it failed.(although looking at how they mounted the shield that might be unfair.)

I only saw the part of the actual fighting on Youtube, and I couldn't find the rest of the episode. So I can't comment on the Kanabo.

a katana Isn't like a claymore, it is much lighter,

Obviously, since it's much shorter. But a No-dachi of about the same length of a Claymore also has about the amount of weight as well.

and no it isn't going cut through that thin layer of bronze, and it isnt near heavy enough to smash the shield.( really a katana weighs less then the average baseball bat.) a claymore now, that i might expect to do some damage to the shield.

My point is, is it actually possible to prove this? It seems many people, including myself, are simply talking out of their imaginations.

I'm no expert at Japanese weaponry, but I highly doubt any of those weapons could damage the shield of a Spartan. The aspis/hoplon is one of the best shields out there, if not the best. A heavy two-handed axe might ruin a Spartan's day, but no spear/sword would break it, unless it was really heavy (medieval claymore, perhaps). Furthermore, an aspis is pretty huge (up to 40", I believe), and the Spartan warrior would be pretty small compared to todays standards. In other words, they could huddle behind their shield with no effort at all, close the gap and go crazy, making spears/two-handed weapons pretty useless. What would follow would be a contest between the samurai's dashing and dodging and the Spartan's blocking and advancing, until one of them made a mistake. My highly unprofessional and personal opinion would favour the Spartan, because blocking takes no effort at all with a shield that big while dodging etc takes far more effort, wearing you out quicker etc, but that's only taking stamina in consideration, and not luck, skill, equipment, training etc.

Ever held a Aspis? I have, and it was pretty dumb heavy, and the thing was supposed to be even lighter than the real one. Blocking does tire you. You can't wave around those things indefinitely.

Also, my understanding is that a shield was used where body armor was relatively undeveloped. If a body armor is advanced enough, the need for a shield disappears; hence why once full plate armor was developed in Europe, Knights abandoned the shield completely. A shield obstructs the user's movement, and it's also a huge weight attached to your left hand. Is Aspis such a wonderful thing?

Which brings me to the other katana argument; the reason it's good is because it's incredibly light and relatively strong. This doesn't mean it's the best sword out there. The only reason why anyone could consider it the best sword is because it's the best sword to suite their style of fighting. Even the comparison EU broadsword vs katana is a bs one. Yes, they are both slashing weapons. Yes, the katana is faster. That doesn't make it better though, because the broadsword is far heavier, and thus makes it more powerful. Again, I'm not an expert, so if someone who is can shed more light on this, go right ahead, but I imagine a broadsword to be far more damaging to well armoured (european?) opponents then a katana.

A broadsword and a katana of a same length has almost the same weight(both about 1kg). So I don't know what you mean by katana being far lighter.

[vietanh797]

first is the Yari spear

it long enough to attack at least one time before hoplite can use his Doru so if come to a normal way he can thrust and brake aspis with his first attack
and a shield which is heavy now have a spear stucked in will be damm heavy
the hand grip in aspis make user hard to remove it fast(damm it)


The yari have many types of blade for many purpose(thurst,slash sometime even increased the weight by add more blad on the side simply to deliver a heavier blow to new eastern armor)
like the one before just a spear head and this one is quite good looking


As for the Nodachi it very long and heavy compare to katana
take a look and thing about how that thing hit you
damm even inside a full plate armor you can still feel that hurt

[andymate]

Human error would be the largest factor in a melee like this. I doubt you could even contemplate who would win it.

[nameless]

I only saw the part of the actual fighting on Youtube, and I couldn't find the rest of the episode. So I can't comment on the Kanabo.

I didn't watch all of it either but the Kanabo is a blunt weapon designed to damage armored opponents right? Wouldn't armor itself be useless as the amount of force coming from the Kanabo transfer from the shield into the Spartan's arm?

Reading on wiki it says the Kanabo didn't break the shield but that's not its exact purpose is it?

[vietanh797]

Just see the vid
I can't understand why Spartan have so many part unarmored and not cover by clothes but the samurai didn't attack those
when in the Samurai vs Viking show samurai can slash the back of Viking's leg where cover by his pants and Samurai can't know that part is armored or not

[Shaio]

Well this is the internet, so probably anything could be faked up as evidence, although i do not say said video of katana cutting steel is fake, modern katana + perfect conditions + lotsa practice at getting perfect angle and stuff.

But if you look at slowmo of it cutting pipe you see it bend the pipe about half way in before it cuts it, so it dents metal before it cuts it, so it probably wouldn't do to well against a sheet of metal with backing.

^ kanabo Dented the shield a bit, transferred quite a bit of force thou your right. However i cant see anyone no matter how skilled swinging that weapon quickly, or without leaving a massive opening.

[Tarusinas]

I don't know exactly if these two warriors are really comparable. For example this video isn't very realistic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taUHynQ-2NY

In my opinion a Spartiate as a elite warrior would win when he fights with shield and spear. But a Samurai (master) is much faster and clever with his longer sword.

[Shaio]

^ the videos are just random reenactments to show the battle and who won for lols sake, the work is apparently done in some random simulation we know nothing about thats probably a less realistic combat simulator then dwarf fortress.

[ManKinD]

The Spartans faught the Immortals, a worthy opponent with a worthy title - who did the Samurai fight - other Samurai...?

[mcantu]

Just see the vid
I can't understand why Spartan have so many part unarmored and not cover by clothes but the samurai didn't attack those
when in the Samurai vs Viking show samurai can slash the back of Viking's leg where cover by his pants and Samurai can't know that part is armored or not

the aspis literally covers a hoplite from chin to knee and is very difficult to get around. also, not all Spartans went without armor. at different times in history they wore a bronze curiass or linothorax armor...

[vietanh797]

the aspis literally covers a hoplite from chin to knee and is very difficult to get around. also, not all Spartans went without armor. at different times in history they wore a bronze curiass or linothorax armor...

I said some "part" un armored
not Spartan without armor

you can see clearly that the hand and the leg of spartan is no cover and the way a spear use in one hand leave more opening
one more thing is the way Spartan usa spear isn't historical
they use over hand like fishing not under hand like a medieval spearman

[BunnyPoopCereal]

Never thought I'd make a successful thread