I aim at the Stars (but sometimes I hit London)

[Garbarsardar]

I was recently watching a movie about the life of Werner von Braun (I aim at the Stars) and I could not help from thinking that his post-war career is an excellent example of allied hypocrisy when they decided to deal with war crimes.

Werner von Braun was a member of the Nazi party, an officer of the SS, he was promoted to professor by the Fuhrer himself; he was responsible for the A4 (V2) rocket that killed almost 3,000 civilians and admitted selecting candidates for slave labour from amongst prisoners and was accused by at least two members of the French resistance of administering punishment himself. What did he got for all this?

• Smithsonian Langley Medal in 1967[65]
• NASA Distinguished Service Medal in 1969
• National Medal of Science in 1975

Let's now compare this to Albert Speer, Reich's architect and armaments minister from 1942. The accusation in Nuremburg was : "Speer joined in planning and executing the program to dragoon prisoners of war and foreign workers into German war industries, which waxed in output while the workers waned in starvation."

So basically organizing the use of slave labour. What he got was 20 years imprisonment. Speer probably deserved every year of the 20 he got, but then what WvB did really deserve?

An interesting fact is that WvB denied everything in patently unconvincing ways: he joined the party in order not to lose his job, the SS in order to get promoted and although he knew about slave labour and camp conditions "It is hellish. My spontaneous reaction was to talk to one of the SS guards, only to be told with unmistakable harshness that I should mind my own business, or find myself in the same striped fatigues!... I realized that any attempt of reasoning on humane grounds would be utterly futile"

On the other hand Speer "...in the closing stages of the war was one of the few men who had the courage to tell Hitler that the war was lost and to take steps to prevent the senseless destruction of production facilities, both in occupied territories and in Germany. He carried out his opposition to Hitler's scorched earth program ... by deliberately sabotaging it at considerable personal risk".

The quote is from the decision in Nuremburg, pronounced by the judges.

And of course Speer admitted everything:

"In political life, there is a responsibility for a man's own sector. For that he is of course fully responsible. But beyond that there is a collective responsibility when he has been one of the leaders. Who else is to be held responsible for the course of events, if not the closest associates around the Chief of State?"

He was no rocket scientist, we know that now.

[BURNY26]

If you think that is bad . Than you should look at My enemy's enemy .

It is the story of Klaus Barbie ,the Butcher of Lyon . He was notorious for his interrogation methods ,but was recruited by the CIA to fight against the communists in Latin America .
He remained a free man until 1984 until they put him on trial in France, extradited by Bolivia. Not too mention the fact that this happened with the US consent ,since they had no use for him anymore .

He had blood on his hands compared too WvB, but he was just as usefull too fight communism .

"the ending of a war is ushered in by a new war "... or something like it

[Trax]

Just a man who did what he had to do to pursue his dream in an insane world.
In totalitarian society one has to play by the rules in order to achieve something.

The morality of it is obviously questionable but wouldn't it have been terrible to waste the
exceptional talent that he had for something else?.

[Pious Agnost]

Too useful to prosecute, I suppose

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

hey now, we needed these war criminals to stop the comie scum!

[hellheaven1987]

Not surprised, many SS actually escaped to Spain and Argentina and never got prosecuted.

[43rdFoot]

He put us on the moon. Whatever his morals were, he certainly provided results.

[Jaketh]

He put us on the moon. Whatever his morals were, he certainly provided results.

exactly

[Dr. Croccer]

The same happened with the Japanese Unit 731, when Ishii asked the Americans if they could not persecute him and his buddies, in return they would help them with their findings on biological warfare.

It's absolutely disgusting, obviously, even more so because many of them were used to plan future atrocities and wars.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

The 3000 civilians his V-2s killed shouldn't be held against him, it was total war.

However the slave untermenschen labour definitely should. He should have died or got life.

And Albert Speer didn't deserve what he got. Obviously he should have resisted, but he didn't deserve any of the 20 years he got.

Franz von Papen on the other hand was acquitted despite being one of the main reasons the Nazis could do what they did.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I didn't know anything about this, made for an interesting read.

[SigniferOne]

I was recently watching a movie about the life of Werner von Braun (I aim at the Stars) and I could not help from thinking that his post-war career is an excellent example of allied hypocrisy when they decided to deal with war crimes.

What was the hypocrisy? He was made to work for his crimes, in order for US to deal with a greater threat.

I agree that he shouldn't have gotten any medals, but that he was put to work for the US and wasn't imprisoned is a perfectly accetable tactic.

[conon394]

but that he was put to work for the US and wasn't imprisoned is a perfectly accetable tactic.

Yep wonder kid of the Master race yesterday and now our buddy fighting for freedom... Sorry I don't see the greater threat. Braun should had been jailed and considered himself lucky to get work release in a prison jumpsuit at NASA - instead of facing Stalin. Working of you crime does not uselessly involve being a paid director with a cushy job.

[Londinium]

The 3000 civilians his V-2s killed shouldn't be held against him, it was total war.

However the slave untermenschen labour definitely should. He should have died or got life.

And Albert Speer didn't deserve what he got. Obviously he should have resisted, but he didn't deserve any of the 20 years he got.

Franz von Papen on the other hand was acquitted despite being one of the main reasons the Nazis could do what they did.

Bit harsh, everything Van Papen did was an attempt to prevent the Nazis getting into power and then to restrain them. He was just outmanoeuvered by a more astute political operator in Hitler.

[SigniferOne]

Sorry I don't see the greater threat. Braun should had been jailed and considered himself lucky to get work release in a prison jumpsuit at NASA - instead of facing Stalin. Working of you crime does not uselessly involve being a paid director with a cushy job.

It does if your skills can save hundreds of millions of Americans.

Yep wonder kid of the Master race yesterday and now our buddy fighting for freedom...

And why not? Did anybody say that he cared about fighting for freedom? He was just an amoral scienist who liked to push his formulas and his little test tubes without care for what morally happened in the real world. We made him sit for us and defend our boys and girls who did care about that which he didn't.

[conon394]

It does if your skills can save hundreds of millions of Americans.

But also besmirching our reputation and making a mockery of our pontification at Nuremberg. So he was brilliant its not like we could not have survived without him.

We made him sit for us and defend our boys and girls who did care about that which he didn't

Again that is the point - we did not make him. We saved him from trial, saved him the Russians and rewarded him with a cushy job beyond most men who actually risked their lives to defeat the Nazis. Defend who - how???

Look Sig I wasn't looking to pick fight but you can't just whisk an immoral jerk away from justice and reward him with a better job than most Americans and citizenship with out also dirtying yourself. Were the Soviets that fearsome, do you really want admit that we were that insecure in our own nation that we had to lower ourselves to consort with Nazi trash. We did - to our disgrace, and I am bitter about that. It not like Braun was some bolt from the blue - we produced Goddard all without Hitler and slave labor - if he had got funding on the same scale we likely would have been unimpressed with the German effort..

[SigniferOne]

I know conon, I'm not picking a fight with you either so don't worry.

besmirching our reputation and making a mockery of our pontification at Nuremberg.

In front of whom? And who cares?

So he was brilliant its not like we could not have survived without him.

And how do you know that? May be may be not, it was by no means certain. On what basis should they have chosen deep uncertainty and perhaps annihilation in this question? Whereas here was certain victory, here was certain permanent advantage.

Save one immoral man to save a hundred million moral people. I don't disagree it's a highly complicated moral choice. I might not have even made it. All I'm saying is that I understand those who did. We certainly have no care for "the rest of the world". It's our own morality, our own principles that matter. The rest of the world, Africa, China with its horrific communism, Russia, Europe with her fascists, nobody has a single thing to say about this choice of ours. If anything we went a little lower than ourselves, because we certainly were and remain higher than all else who'd judge us.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Look Sig I wasn't looking to pick fight but you can't just whisk an immoral jerk away from justice and reward him with a better job than most Americans and citizenship with out also dirtying yourself. Were the Soviets that fearsome, do you really want admit that we were that insecure in our own nation that we had to lower ourselves to consort with Nazi trash. We did - to our disgrace, and I am bitter about that. It not like Braun was some bolt from the blue - we produced Goddard all without Hitler and slave labor - if he had got funding on the same scale we likely would have been unimpressed with the German effort..

they should have sent him to jail and made him work from there.

[Jaketh]

this guy made us able to land on the moon, anything else he did in his life does not matter

[conon394]

this guy made us able to land on the moon, anything else he did in his life does not matter

Bull... he was one man and not all that brilliant. He copied Goddard and the US had a huge budget and vast numbers of other researchers, engineers technicians skilled trades men and such and none of them were slave driving Nazi's.The US and UK did OK in WW2 without Nazi sloppy seconds, I think we could have done just fine without sullying ourselves with his kind of trash after the war.

Honestly as an American I rather the 'Red's' got to the moon first if it meant we would lack the stain of collaborating with Hitler 's minions, I'd rather not go than don that badge.


Sorry in particular I will never agree with:

anything else he did in his life does not matter

Big deal we went to the moon so what? He was war criminal and a major player in perhaps the most evil regime ever - the moon landing removes none of the red from his hands - the SOB should have considered himself lucky to advise from a US military brig..