FAILED[Citizen] Stavroforos (Patron: Leonidas The Lion)

[Leonidas The Lion]

Client: Stavroforos

Client:Stavroforos

Honorable members of the Consilium,

Under the most kind and generous offer of Patronization extended to me by Leonidas, I have come here seeking the extension of the TWC franchise to myself.
I, like many others, was first motivated to join Total War Center due to its large modding community, and was greatly interested in the Basileia: Total War mod which was then in development. Again, like many others, I eventually found my way to the Discussion and Debate section of the forums. Initially, my method of debating was not very sophisticated, earning me a reputation for my famous “one liners,” which while I found to be quite amusing, realized contributed little to the debate at hand. I rarely find myself engaging in prolonged debates on one specific issue, as both sides usually settle in their camps and the debate just turns into a back-and-forth, but threads that are of particular interest to me tend to keep my attention for longer, resulting in what I believe are some of the better examples of debate which I can claim.

One such debate was the debate that was had on the future of the Canadian monarchy, found here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=310567

While the Mudpit and Academy retain most of my attention, I do occasionally venture into the VV, and have generally been more serious in my posts there. Though my thread on the Holocaust in Greece was not as successful as I hoped and did not garner much attention, I am particularly proud of that post, just as I am proud of my entry in the Scriptorium Writing competition last year which earned me Librarian’s Choice. I was unfortunately not able to put forward an entry this year due to the various papers involved in finishing up my undergraduate degree.

My thread on the Holocaust in Greece
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=279224
My reposted Scriptorium entry, as I could not find the original thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...86#post7460086

Finally, though this may not be customary and probably for good reason, I am quite fond of my participation in Thema Devia, and in my general more light-hearted and humorous contributions to TWC. I feel that while this activity is not as perhaps meritorious as debating, being involved in the modding scene, or contributing to the website with articles and the like, it has made me feel as though I am a member of a living and breathing community, and hope that it has made others feel the same way. I also believe that I have helped the various male members of the site with my previous sigs, as they seem to be a near-constant source of compliments! I have been a very active member and consider TWC to be part of my daily routine, averaging 10 posts a day and having made almost 2,000 posts in the past two months alone.

I thank Leonidas again for his most generous offer, and I thank the members of the Consilium for taking the time to read my application.

Patron:Leonidas The Lion

I'm submitting Stavroforos for the rank of Citizen, because I personally believe he has earned it. I won't write much as I think his paragraph says it all. His contributions I believe are evident in his posts in the D&D and other areas.He has a great attitude and I believe he would make a great addition to the ranks of citizens.

[Legio]

yes

[Elzabar]

He has had five notes and one reversed warning, from January '08 for insulting others, July, October, November '09 for off-topic posting, off-topic posting and obscene content, and April 11 2010 for insulting others. The reversed warning is from April 16 2010, and is also for insulting others.

I'm not sure on this candidate. I haven't really seen any posts (disregarding the ones he linked to) that have been a contribution, but then, I don't think we see many contributions to the site in the GA&C and games forums, and I don't frequent much of the other places. I'll have to scrutinise him a bit more closely

[abbews]

I like his babe sigs. And his humour.

[Каие]

I like him despite his Republicanism and pro-EU crapola ... but I don't see any super duper contributions in long argumentative posts on a frequent basis. I see mainly one liners and a chip on the shoulder. Then again I have never denied citizenship to a debater on the basis of length of posts. I'll have a think about it.

[the Black Prince]

this is a joke, right?

An instant no from me, just from my general knowledge of this members posting.

However, I wasn't elected to vote on gut instinct, so I've also done the obligatory research. This is a member who stands out in some debates, but rarely for the right reasons. In fairness to him, there are a number of decent posts out there, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule.

A happy fun loving amicable member, a debator, but nothing stellar, nothing that jumps out. The occassional post of the sort of level you'd expect from a good debating citizen, but nothing consistently at that level.

The notes, obviously, do not disqualify the member, but they do represent a consistent trend that has not petered out over the years. They add even greater weight to the no argument.

I cannot say never ever for this member, but it would take great effort to convince me to vote yes here. A herculanean effort would be required on his part to post consistently at the sort of level you'd expect from a citizen, and further effort to prevent further notes which would only reinforce the trends the current notes show.

Conduct, no
Post quality, no
Contribution, no
Citizenship, very definitely, no


TBH, I'm actually surprised that so many CdeC voters are saying yes!
A handful of decent posts, poor conduct, a tendancy toward insulting and/or off topic posts and no significant contributions to debate and we're voting yes? No wonder some members thing we must have very low standards.

Being a nice guy, "a good poster" and occassionally making a decent post is hardly citizen material, citizens are supposed to be the top posters, not just those who can string an argument together and avoid getting infractions.

Given the number of notes for consistently the same reasons, I don't think yuo can even call him a good poster either...

[Søren]

Conduct, no
Post quality, no
Contribution, no
Citizenship, very definitely, no

That's also my analysis.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I seem to remember that he had a list of infractions. I have a negative recollection of his posts as well. I'm seeing a lot of one liners that aren't too particularly thought provoking. I don't like the looks of that. I mean, long posts aren't necessary for citizenship, but post quality is. Some people write a lot without actually saying anything, but I'm seeing not much written and not much being said. Basically I don't see the D&D contribution that I would like to see from a candidate that lists his major contributions as debating.

Also, I'm seeing too many babes. I don't get a good vibe from him in that regard either. Its just kind of creepy.

A solid no from me.

[Elzabar]

Ponti, see the list of his Moderator interactions on my first post in this thread.

I'm going to say no as well. Turns out the reason I haven't seen many contributions from him is because there are none to see.

I believe he also got into a bit of trouble because of spamming the TD Chat Thread. Søren, you were the one who took action on that, would you be able to back that up?

[Leonidas The Lion]

hmm I didn't know he had so many notes.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Can we give the young lass in his signature Citizenship instead?

Anywhozle...

Some more consistency would help his case first and foremost, be it of behavioral tendencies or post quality. The two essays he linked to are solid from what I've read, but I intend to look them over once more. From my estimation and from his paragraph he seems to enjoy humorous interjections over the monotony of debate, and that's fine, I love me a good harhar. Though we have rep to award lighthearted posting, and possibly the Loincloth(which incidentally grants Citizenship despite not being a 'Large Award'), but aside from that it's fairly hard to assess towards Citizenship. Feeling a part of an organic community is good, that's why we have chat areas, PMs, etc, but Citizens need to stand out and be a catalyst for the creation of such content that a community can be fostered around.

In some respects I agree with Rum though, as much as it pains me to say it. Length of post isn't always the most accurate indicator. At the same time, the shorter the post gets the more cutting the wit needs to be in order for it to add anything substantial to the debate. I've read some of his debate posts, and while I'm not terribly impressed so far I might yet be swayed by volume, since some debaters do draw out their posts over many smaller entries.

As of yet undecided, but am likely to vote No unless I review more of his posts and come away satisfied. I hope he can strike more of a compromise between his essays and his shorter posts, since the disparity seems to be quite large in quantity and in content.

[Legio]

He has the ability to be mad smart tho

my racial slurs


he got librarian's choice for an excellent article two competitions ago, in around january of 2010
ill find it soon, with the aid of jim cos maybe the article was moved to a hidden forum AND I CANT SEE IT

[the Black Prince]

shouldn't there be a poll on this already?

[abbews]

Probably, but TWC has been down for 3-4 days so I guess it's a bit delayed.

[Empress Meg]

Poll added.

@tBP, yes I should have done this yesterday but I had to work so any and all tasks that needed doing during and after the downtime were pushed back to today. I made a note of it in the townhall thread and take full responsibility for this.

Devoirs The Empress

[Nikos]

I'm going to have to agree with tBP and others who say that he isn't qualified. After looking through some of his posts, and looking at his infraction record, I think he needs to mature a bit more in posting style and attitude before I think he will qualify for Citizenship. I think he has the right stuff, but needs to display it more.

[the Black Prince]

voted

[Nikos]

Abstained

[Leonidas The Lion]

Abstain

[Empress Meg]

His attitude alone would make me vote no. Just too nasty a disposition with all of them notes. While he may have a sense of humour, that's no panacea for lampooning others on the forum.

I also agree with the tBP's breakdown on this fellow.

Devoirs The Empress