Preview: The Romani - (II)

[anunnak]

@Moros, i have no wish to take any aggresive stance. I finished a faculty of history(though i dont think myself a professional historian) and it's just a reflex to ask for sources, archeological and literary, before i make a claim. This preview made me wonder that's all, so i wished to learn more here. I still dont see any solid literary or historical evidence of the oscan "thureos" and since the scutum influenced the thureos and not vice versa i wonder why u included it for the oscans and principes?

@bobbin, i do not know Paullus Scipio, i offer my apologies if anyone felt offended, still...where is the historical evidence of oscan thureos or thureos in the principes army? other then a resemblence of shape which can also be attribuited to a certain context. Can't this be just a convergent evolution unrelated with the influence of the celtic Hallstad and La Tene culture by the Villanova as Moros said?
I also never spoke with MeinPanzer but he does not present any sources of any sort of a principes thureos or a oscan thureos. Sitalkes makes no point in that disscusion other that it was used by the illyrians so it doesnt help your claim.
Having two kinds of shields, one created by the celts one by the romans,the later according to Polybios and Titus Livius have taken the pattern from the oscans, doesnt make the principes use a thureos so i still dont see any sources, literary or archeological about a thureos in the principes panoply or oscan one, just a resemblance and a link with a 600 years prior of the game start "extinct" culture.

So where are the sources? If u want u can foward this debate to Paullus so he can answer here or pm me about it.

[Moros]

@Moros, i have no wish to take any aggresive stance. I finished a faculty of history(though i dont think myself a professional historian) and it's just a reflex to ask for sources, archeological and literary, before i make a claim. This preview made me wonder that's all, so i wished to learn more here. I still dont see any solid literary or historical evidence of the oscan "thureos" and since the scutum influenced the thureos and not vice versa i wonder why u included it for the oscans and principes?

I'm sorry, I might have taken it wrong, it probably was to early in the mourning.

[anunnak]

Np. Moros , sometimes in a debate which isnt face to face things get interpreted in the wrong way.Actually i'm playing EB since it was in the beta stages. It has done a great job when it comes to immersion.

[Moros]

I've send you a pm with some of the pictoral evidence for our unit.

[bobbin]

@bobbin, i do not know Paullus Scipio, i offer my apologies if anyone felt offended, still...where is the historical evidence of oscan thureos or thureos in the principes army? other then a resemblence of shape which can also be attribuited to a certain context. Can't this be just a convergent evolution unrelated with the influence of the celtic Hallstad and La Tene culture by the Villanova as Moros said?
I also never spoke with MeinPanzer but he does not present any sources of any sort of a principes thureos or a oscan thureos. Sitalkes makes no point in that disscusion other that it was used by the illyrians so it doesnt help your claim.
Having two kinds of shields, one created by the celts one by the romans,the later according to Polybios and Titus Livius have taken the pattern from the oscans, doesnt make the principes use a thureos so i still dont see any sources, literary or archeological about a thureos in the principes panoply or oscan one, just a resemblance and a link with a 600 years prior of the game start "extinct" culture.

So where are the sources? If u want u can foward this debate to Paullus so he can answer here or pm me about it.

Please read my previous posts again, I am not saying that the principes are using a thureos, that was a mistake on my part because the two look very similar.

[Moros]

The word used in some of the concept threads is proto-scutum, not thyreos for that matter.

[anunnak]

@bobbin & Moros, i guess there's a bit of a debate about it, and history isnt an exact science.

[airborne guy]

The shields for the Hastati, principes and triari are not historically accurate, Just sayin

[Appius Pulcher]

The shields for the Hastati, principes and triari are not historically accurate, Just sayin

Sources?

[Haithabas]

The shields for the Hastati, principes and triari are not historically accurate, Just sayin

In your own words : "Dont critisize people for making mods to the game. If you want to argue, go elsewhere "

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...5#post12269645

[airborne guy]

In your own words : "Dont critisize people for making mods to the game. If you want to argue, go elsewhere "

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...5#post12269645

LOL, I wasnt trying to make and argument, just saying the shields werent historically acurate

[airborne guy]

LOL, I wasnt trying to make and argument, just saying the shields werent historically acurate

These are though











Here is the link for the EB Team, you guys probably found this already though
https://www.google.com/search?q=roma...w=1920&bih=976

[JustDoit8]

Airborne guy, these shields are not of early republican periods, so you argument is irrelevant in this case.
The ones depicted in the mod are not entirely historically accurate, but the team didn't limit its research by google pictures,therefore, I guess they are more accurate than the ones provided by you.

P.S No offence

[Slaytaninc]

How does the EB team feel about the idea put out by J.E. Lendon that the Velites used by the Polybian Romans were a way for younger men without the wealth required to serve in the Hastati to act out on a Roman cultural impetus for bravery in single combat.

That view of the evolution of the manipular formation does not necessarily preclude tactical evolution in response to threat, but does not necessarily mean it is truthful.

[paulus]

Anunnak: our depiction of early Roman Republican troops follows the best archaeological and pictoral evidence, which is that the thureos was used by Roman and most Italic troops until after 200 BC. There is absolutely no evidence for the large, concave scutum before the Pydna monument, as far as I am aware, and several pieces of evidence for a flat oval scutum like that used pervasively throughout the Mediterranean in that era.

Slaytaninc: Lendon's theories have interesting aspects, and problematic aspects. Velites surely hoped to be seen and perchance recognized, and I would suggest that played a greater role than fulfilling some cultural demand, but Lendon would have said the same thing a few years ago.

[Nelduin]

Don't know if it is still possible, but please could someone fix the dead links and pictures in this preview ? Would be nice to see it living again .

[airborne guy]

Don't know if it is still possible, but please could someone fix the dead links and pictures in this preview ? Would be nice to see it living again .

Dont know if they can retrieve them, lots of pics have been lost over the years