The Grand Tournament of Iran, it's regime, relations/reputation, atomic potentials and arms race. [Odinarius & Vermelho vs. concon394 & Sivilombudsmannen]

[Kjertesvein]

On June 02, 2010, a TWC General by the name of Maximus Decimus Vermelho, was given the call by past away Emperor Garb Aurelius(who past away from active duty on TWC by strange circumstances in close quarters with his son, Lucius Romuskb8 Commodus. The call) to win glory and fame by convincing the US and her allies that they should covertly destroy/steal any nukes held by Iran and that the West and their supporters should help de-stabilise the Tehran regime. Commodus was not infavour of this, so he cast him down in the abyss, only to be suprised that his rival heir, Maximus Decimus Vermelho had come up to kick ass in his own coliseum.
However, it's said "he who does not fight, do not conquer". Therefor, two other gladiators stepped up against General Vermelho and the motion. While one of his opponent allmost got killed by Emperor Lucius Romus Commodus for repling and therfor insulting his Challange thread. Conon394 was his name, and from that day he got the scare, an eye-patch to cover it and the fate of a gladiator.
Maximus Decimus Vermelho now saw the most feared opponents in Coliseum stand against him. And although his bravery have given him glory and fame in the past, this match needed more support! He therefor sendt haste for the slave by the name Juba Odinarius who would be his closes ally in this shared hardship.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Without further warning, the tournament was about to begin June 08, 2010. It would last until the last man or when the people gave their voice to Emperor Lucius Romus kb8 Commodus to give the famous thumb-signal to finish the fight in one capital blow.........




The formal motion: "I believe that the USA and her allies should covertly destroy/steal any nukes held by Iran and that the West and their supporters should help de-stabilise the Tehran regime. "

The following combatent:

• For the motion:
  
  • Odinarius
    
    • (and his pokèmon... )
  • Vermelho
    
    • 

Vs.

• Against the motion:
  
  • conon394
    
    • 
  • Sivilombudsmannen
    
    • 

First and formaly, let us all share what arms and armour we are about to use (knowledge, point of view and experience we have on the subject). I can start:

Caesar! Caesar!
Caesar! Caesar!



People of Rome!



On the fourth day of Antioch... And in his majestic charity... the emperor has deigned this day to favor the people of Rome... with an historical final match. turning to the Colosseum today, after five years in retirement... Caesar is pleased to bring you.... the only undefeated champion... in Roman history... the legendary Tigris Wilhelm... of Gaul! :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have on previews occation been to Iran (here), I have met some of the people in the Capital and aswell as friend of the former Head of UN mission to Tehran. By further investigation, I have learned abit how they as a people evolve as a social and culturel society and still are, more then the screeming mothers you see on the News.
The regime is one thing which I dispice, but the "overthrowing the regime" from the outside will do nothing more then destroy every bit of progress which have been made, and throw them back into stone age, hollywood anarchism and further backward thinking. I would go as far as declearing this charade as little more then Cold War 1.1.


Are you not entertained???

If you are, then you may aswell shout, throw tomatos or make nicknames like Sivilombudsmannen The Brave, etc. in the commentary thread here.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...43#post7491843

~Wille

[Odinarius]

No training can prepare you for this.

„Go and die with honour!“ , I hear even as the loud mob of 50,000, screaming with all it`s power, yearns for blood. Yet I barely heard that old gladiator greeting as my heart beats like a whole Roman legion on the march, muffling all other sounds. It`s quite possible I would have broken off and ran if it wasn`t for Maximus Vermelho coming up from behind, his sure-footed walk giving me calm amidst the frightening roars produced by the bloodthirsty audience. His big Pokemon smile helps as well.


As the motion is a bit unclear, suggesting two different things, this is how I choose to interpret it: Iran regime should be brought down by any means, including violent ones. That includes covert commando raids and strikes, air attacks, and ground invasion if necessary, as opposed to diplomacy.

I`ll segment my case as follows:
- First, I`ll establish that Iran regime`s intentions are belligerent
- Then I`ll go into the dangers of their nuclear program
- Then I`ll explain why other measures such as sanctions are not and would not be effective
There is more ground to cover, as people of Iran haven`t been mentioned and a few other points. I`ll do that in following speeches. Erm, battles. This is a fight club. And I intend to win. Erm, to survive.

Main premise: Either Iran will collapse internally or externally before producing nuclear weapons, or it will produce them with devastating consequences.

Iran`s intentions are belligerent

Iran is a bastion of Islamic extremism.
Iran fuels the conflicts in Middle East and beyond by offering open and covert support to groups labelled as terrorist groups. Incidentally, they are all fundamentalist factions. Examples include Al Qaeda (including its operations in Iraq, Pakistan, Lebanon, Yemen, and a host of other countries), Hamas, PLO, and others. By support, I don`t mean humanitarian aid. I mean weapons, explosives, training, camps, intelligence, shelter, and everything else a terrorist organization needs to carry out its aims, including direct involvement.
There is evidence aplenty, most obvious one being that Iranian weapons, like AK-74, have been found among dead terrorists in Iraq. They carry Iranian serial numbers and are of recent production. Revolutionary Guard commandoes have been encountered in Pakistan, in Al Qaeda terrorist training camps.

Therefore, it is obvious Iran wishes to dominate Islamic world, and it seeks to do that through violent means. That prevents any hope of peace settling in the Middle East, fuels the conflict and encourages the use of terrorist methods.


Dangers of Iran nuclear program

This is the biggest threat. Due to the belligerence of Iranian regime, the resources at their disposal and support from Russia and China, their nuclear program has a very realistic chance of producing nuclear weapons.
And there`s nothing stopping them from using it on Israel and in terrorist attacks on other countries in the world. Should one of the previous mentioned terrorist groups which Iran so actively supports obtain such a weapon, consequences can be huge.
Even if they do not enrich their uranium enough, there is always the possibility of supplying terrorists with dirty bombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb). If they are not withholding with conventional terrorist weapons, there is no reason why they should withhold in providing WMD as well.
That`s why Iran cannot be allowed to get to the point of actually having nuclear weapons.


Why other measures such as sanctions are not and cannot not be effective

I was going to wait for Security Council vote today, but given that call to arms has been proclaimed some time ago and action is required, I`ll come back to it in later speeches. Erm, battles.
Two levels of sanctions against Iran are already in place by the UN. As a method of applying international pressure, they seem to have failed in their purpose. Iran is more belligerent than ever, and its nuclear program is still in action.
Iran is an Islam nation, with a fundamentalist religious regime at the top. It gains respect and authority in isolation (dominantly economic). Sanctions alone are never going to be enough, and that has been proven with authoritarian regimes on numerous occasions, as well as with existing sanctions.
Sanctions have as an aim to provoke general discontent, putting pressure on the regime to change its policies. That is not going to happen. Only thing that might happen, is that we see another revolution, non religious one this time around. That will result in a civil war, in which millions will die. Country is far more fractured now then in previous one, and far more willing to defend its position. Blood will flow in millions.

Final premise: Overthrowing Iran`s regime by violent means is the only solution to stop it from fuelling the numerous terrorists groups and to stop it from obtaining nuclear weapons.



Sorry for not having enough time to elaborate these points and introduce more, as I`m drastically short on time. Hopefully, what I wrote is clear enough. I will definitely expand on this further on.

[Vermelho_Steele]

Alright, I surrender. I'm dropping out of this debate, I just haven't found any time what so ever. Really sorry.

[Viking Prince]

Sadly this seems to have died. Pm me if you wish to reactivate the debate.