Unusual Lances

**♔ brucedickenson♔** · June 03, 2010, 04:49 PM

Ok so you guys probably think I have a fetish for lances by now

Found here, http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napole...ssian_army.htm

Are these perculuar Russian lances, with the back shaped like a musket

Could they be converted muskets, or simply a different lance with a butt for better grip and posture?

**Prince of Darkness** · June 04, 2010, 06:50 AM

It say lances and pikes-perhaps the bayonet one is homemade pikes made by the opelchenie militia?
Erm I had a strange obsession for long and sharp things too.....

**Swerg** · June 04, 2010, 07:54 AM

It actually kind of makes sense if you think about it. It would make thrusting one-handed easier than with a regular smooth-shafted lance. It probably didn't look as good as a nice lacquered, straight, lance, which is why it was so uncommon as to not ever be mentioned or appear in artwork

**Didz** · June 04, 2010, 08:30 AM

To me they just look like muskets with bayonets on, are you sure they are intended to be lances?

**SMIDSY** · June 04, 2010, 02:59 PM

In the description on the site it says "Lances and pikes". Kinda answers that, doesn't it?

**Didz** · June 06, 2010, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by SMIDSY

In the description on the site it says "Lances and pikes". Kinda answers that, doesn't it?

I'd be more inclined to assume that the caption on the image was wrong than that there were pikes with musket barrels and batonets attached in use. I would be interesting to know where the image itself came from and the context in which it was drawn, rather than assume that the site manager labelled it accurately.

**The Hedge Knight** · June 06, 2010, 06:54 AM

On the other hand if thats the case why are they completelly devoid of firing mechanisms, triggers, and the metal ring that stops the tip of the barrel expanding?

**Didz** · June 06, 2010, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Josst

On the other hand if thats the case why are they completelly devoid of firing mechanisms, triggers, and the metal ring that stops the tip of the barrel expanding?

True, but again we don't know the origin of the image. For all we know it might be some stylized piece of symbology from a heraldric device, or even the front plate design from a children's book. Its not dated either which doesn't help.

p.s. I've done a bit of research and as far as I can determine tha image is from a card published by a Russian illustrator called Oleg Parkhaev and is part of a set published in the 1980's. Apparently the cards became a sort of unofficial currency amongst wargamers and re-enactors with Russians trading them for cash and denim jeans with their western counterparts at conventions.

Oleg Parkhaev: This Russian illustrator's work may be familiar to you having been featured on cards published in the late 80s. As Russia became more international and Russian reenactors started travelling to the West these cards were used to get spending money off people like us and gratefully received they were too. A nice archaic style with uncluttered backgrounds they carry the information well.

p.p.s. I think I have traced the origin of the image itself back to a Russian history website http://history.scps.ru. The image appears in a library of weapons from 1812 here http://history.scps.ru/table/Viewer....my_1812_4&id=5 and comes with a textural explanation of what it depicts. Unfortunately, I can't read Russian and the translation doesn't make a lot of sense. It appears to be discussing the spear tips of the various weapons shown though it translates as 'peaks' for some reason. No obvious mention is noticable in the translation about the strange but ends of the weapons.