What will make or break Shogun 2 TW- For us anyway

[Magefsx]

Makers:
Sea battles using older style ships, which are rarely seen on film, let alone video games
The return of sword fighting!!!
FIVE LEVELS of castle construction. Sounds like epic seiges could finally emerge
The ability to remove the hero units from the game- for the sake of the sane many
Pre battle speaches are BACK
Upgrading units sounds like it does have potential
Decent AI interaction/diplomacy, especially with the european nations
Hopefully an expansion that opens up China to invasion
(If I think of more, I'll add them)

Breakers:
Hero units. And we thought the navel battles in ETW were unrealistic. I thought Total War was a series renouned for its moderate realism. Ah well... so much for that idea then.
If there is no back-stabbing in battles, that will have ruined at least half the immersion for me. Or are they going to but that down to the japanese "code of honour"?
Useless castle keeps that look decent but do absolutely nothing
Lack of unit diversity- its even stated the review that there will only be "30-40" basic units... ok then. Thats another 10% taken out of the game. I love the use of elite units to annialate a rookie bunch. But then, this is obviously what they have replaced with the one-man legion (better known as Jackie Chan)

Any more ideas?- Add them. Lets Give CA some proper TWC advice

[Nack]

Again, hero units are nothing new, Kensai were the same thing. CA is probably presenting them as something new for marketing reasons...

[deshields538]

Makers:

Hero units. And we thought the navel battles in ETW were unrealistic. I thought Total War was a series renouned for its moderate realism. Ah well... so much for that idea then.

You're only noticing this now? Not when the Roman battlefield ninjas that can hide in the middle of empty fields appeared?

[KozaK101]

Or the well known battle feild assasins of Hungary, or the Amazonion yubtseb elephants.

[Dynamo11]

Moddability..... all problems can be solved via easily moddable files

[Carlaz]

Has to be Hero units. Please, please have an option to leave them out. Modding is the next issue but i have kind of given up waiting for that as unfortunately companies make a nice little earner from dlc. Here's hoping they give that option otherwise i will wait for the inevitable price drop this time!

[Odinarius]

As much as I read from Kieran`s explanation, they will be more like generals were in Rome and Medieval 1/2. Not really like Kensai, that was ridiculous.

Plus, what good is the age of samurai without samurai?

I`m not commenting on speculation, I have faith CA will sort it out in a satisfying manner.

[JaNuZ99]

You're only noticing this now? Not when the Roman battlefield ninjas that can hide in the middle of empty fields appeared?

vanillia was all about "uber" troops, not much of a surprise.

[Lordinquisitor]

The three most important things are:

-A good (Better a freaking awesome.) A.i
-A good modability
-A good Diplomacy

Now, combine that with the announced smaller and more balanced rosters and we might actually see a decent and challenging, tactical, game.

[D.B. Cooper]

Goes without saying but...battle AI.

[Londoneye]

You're only noticing this now? Not when the Roman battlefield ninjas that can hide in the middle of empty fields appeared?

Don't forget the burning pigs of RTW that could be used to frighten off elephants.
And what about the elephants in M2TW that had cannons mounted on their backs.
There was even a version mounted with rocket launchers in vanilla M2TW (though you needed to use a cheat for getting it).

[random_samurai]

I'd really like to see an improved reinforcement system; which in turn would re-haul the co-op aspect of the MP Campaign.

[InF3sTeD]

Even if there will be limited units they will have an upgrade system where I assume as they units gain experience they will be given better armour and weapons. Which would be sweet.

Or it could be like in all TW games where you just need to upgrade your armoursmith. I dunno but I hope for option one because I would love to see my really experienced units stand out in a battle.

[Nack]

Don't forget the burning pigs of RTW that could be used to frighten off elephants.
And what about the elephants in M2TW that had cannons mounted on their backs.
There was even a version mounted with rocket launchers in vanilla M2TW (though you needed to use a cheat for getting it).

And head hurlers. And Screeching women. And berserkers.

Seriously, hero units is just a fancy name for "Weaker kensai with habilities and a name".

[InF3sTeD]

And head hurlers. And Screeching women. And berserkers.

Seriously, hero units is just a fancy name for "Weaker kensai with habilities and a name".

I think we need to stop calling them "Hero Units". Hope in the next update or E3 they tell us more.

[Tilarium]

For me a make would be to replace it with Rome II or Med III or a full version of Empire.

[Marcion]

So long as there's the Kublai Khan campaign, I'll probably buy it. If not, probably not.

[lemoney]

Honestly I welcome heroes/character leveling or any new features. Do you guys really want the same boring old game with a new map, shiny graphics and units like Empire and Napoleon(although they are separate games)? So far it seem Shogun II can have some real potential. Also the lack of unit diversity is not at all a bad thing. It does add more tactical descians and is more realistic than having and OP faction like before. You would know what I mean if you Played the first Shogun which was done very well.

[Magefsx]

Honestly I welcome heroes/character leveling or any new features. Do you guys really want the same boring old game with a new map, shiny graphics and units like Empire and Napoleon(although they are separate games)?

Erm...yes. Probably because it isnt all that boring.

So far it seem Shogun II can have some real potential. Also the lack of unit diversity is not at all a bad thing. It does add more tactical descians and is more realistic than having and OP faction like before. You would know what I mean if you Played the first Shogun which was done very well.

This I agree with, albiet I still think it would be nice to have a marginal variety between units of different factions, with each faction having 2/3 special units (as in the crusades campaign M2TW)

[Antagonist]

As always, AI and moddability are hugely important for me.

Regarding the "heroes", it's not an idea I particularly like, but it's a bit premature to pronounce it a "dealbreaker" based on so little information. Seems like some people read that an instantly assumed it would be "Dynasty Warriors: Total War" or something.

A smaller number of units could be a good thing if it means more attention is paid to their design. I think people sometimes overestimate the variety of units in more recent TW games, the reality is that there are often 10 or more units which are minimal reskins of the same model, if that. I'd rather 40 units which were genuinely differentiated and offered different tactical possibilities than 200 units, 12 of which are the same reskinned spearman/line infantry/whatever. Having said that though, Shogun was perhaps too far in the other direction: by my count there were only 12 unit types available in the main campaign, rising to 17 with the expansion installed. That's pretty sparse, even taking into account that all factions are fundamentally the same culture. Viewed in that light, 30-40 different units is a good number IMO.

Antagonist