# Thread: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

1. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Didz
Hi Sharpie!

I'm intrigued by the changes you have made to Wind Speed in this mod, but can't quite understand the diagram. (see below)

If I understand it correctly what you are explaining is that in the standard ETW game (I assume you mean't NTW too) ships move at a percentage of their maximum speed depending upon their point of sail.

So, when running with the wind behind them they suffer a 35% penalty to their movement, when reaching its a 70% penalty and when turned directly into the wind its a 100% penalty (e.g. no forward movement)

If I've understood that right then your mod reduces the penalties when running before the wind to 10%, and when reaching to 60%, but I don't understand why the diagram suggests that the penalty when sailing into wind is now only 75%, whilst its 100% when close hauled.

That can't be right based upon what you say the mod does, so I must assume I'm misreading the diagram.

Incidently, my own experience of sailing and the research conducted by Edwards and McKenzie for their Napoleonic Naval Wargame suggests that relative speed through the water varies according to point of sail as follows:

Wind over the beam or quarter (Reaching) = Fastest point of sail (100% movement)
Wind from astern (Running before the wind) = Slightly slower (approx 80% movement)
Bearing to windward (Hauling/Close Hauled) = Slowest point of sail (approx 50% movement)
Turned Into the Wind (Luffed) = Negative movement as the ship drifts downwind.

So, the logic is that ships sail fastest when the wind is blowing over their side, as the maximum sail area is being presented to wind at that angle. When the wind is blowing over the stern some speed is lost because some of the sail area is masked by other sails, and when the wind is coming over the forward quarter the reduction caused by masked sails is made worse by the wind pressure on the hull and sails trying to drive the vessel downwind. Finally when the ship turn direclty into wind the entire force of the wind tries to drive the ship backwards, although the natural tendency is for it to swing off the wind and back onto its previous course (broaching to).

Approximate angles on the bow for square rigged ships are given as:

0-55 degree's (Luffed)
56-79 degree's (Hauling)
80-160 degree's (Reaching)
161-180 degree's (Running)

Just thought you might find that useful.
Numbers on the diagram show speed in percentage terms to the maximum

So, as you said. There is feature of sailing ships with rectangular sails.
When ship floats strictly downwind, last sail (sail on the back)
masks other sails from the wind. Then other sails do not receive the wind and don't push the ship at 100% of their capability.
To reach maximum speed, sailing warships had to float at angle of 60 degrees to the wind

2. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Sharp
So, as you said. There is feature of sailing ships with rectangular sails.
When ship floats strictly downwind, last sail (sail on the back)
masks other sails from the wind. Then other sails do not receive the wind and don't push the ship at 100% of their capability.
To reach maximum speed, sailing warships had to float at angle of 60 degrees to the wind
So, according to your model then a square rigged ship running before the wind will only sail at 10% of its maximum speed?

And its fastest point of sail is when it is is beating to windward with the wind 60 degree's of the bow.

If I wanted to alter these percentages is there a table somewhere that determines the values, as I'd like to see what happens if I use the NavWar values?

3. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

question:can im do 1 or 2 ships maximum in naval formation instead of 6??????I want to make that the ships went in naval formations to campaigns in game on 1 or 2

And where to me to make, in what file in game, and what program is necessary what to open a file???

4. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Hi @ARM, you should be able to group ships into formations of as many or as few ships as you wish. If you only want 2 in a formation just select the two and click the Group button. If you want 6 in a formation select the 6 ships and press the group button.

The formation they keep will either be the formation you choose from the formation button, or the formation they were in when they were grouped. So, you can choose any formation you like and the ships will try to keep it once grouped.

Hope that helps.

5. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Didz
Hi @ARM, you should be able to group ships into formations of as many or as few ships as you wish. If you only want 2 in a formation just select the two and click the Group button. If you want 6 in a formation select the 6 ships and press the group button.

The formation they keep will either be the formation you choose from the formation button, or the formation they were in when they were grouped. So, you can choose any formation you like and the ships will try to keep it once grouped.

Hope that helps.
I know it, but all the same thanks.I want to make so my group and as the group of the ships of the opponent(AI) contained in itself a maximum on 1 or 2 ships, instead of the whole fleet to 10-16 in group
I think that when the ships on a strategic card will be on 1-2 that they will be in regular more intervals распределенны and fights will be more interesting, personalized when 1 ship against 1 or against 1, and if AI will connect also the help (1 nearby 1 or 2 ships the) then fights would become more unpredictable, interesting, not as your squadron from 10 ships against squadron AI too from 10 ships
Where that in files in game it is possible to expose manually group to a minimum, but all the same makes a considerable quantity of units, on the sea and in a reality it is very rare so would happen that the ships swam such gangs

6. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by ARM
I know it, but all the same thanks.
Ah! I obviously misunderstood, and I'm not really sure what your asking so I can't help. Sorry.

7. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

i think he is talking about the campaign map. he wants the fleets restricted to 1-2 vessels.

8. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Potato Fritz
i think he is talking about the campaign map. he wants the fleets restricted to 1-2 vessels.
Well of course the big problem with the campiagn map, particularly when it comes to the naval campaign is that there is no reason to scatter your fleet in small packets around the world, nor is there any disadvantage to massing a huge fleet of the largest ships you can build.

Part of the reason large fleets of huge ships works as a naval strategy in ETW and NTW is because the evade system does not allow small ships to evade larger slower heavy ones. Thus allowing large ships to perform roles for which historically they were unsuited, and consequently rendering the role of pirates, privateers and commence raiders impractical at a strategic level. That in turn making it unecessary to build and deploy commence protection vessels to hunt them down.

Historically, of course the adage always was that there were never enough frigates, and the reason for that was that the larger ships of the line simply could not catch anything other than another ship of the line, and so the only way to protect ones trade routes was to deploy large numbers of smaller vessels to patrol those trade routes and keep them safe from pirates and privateers.

9. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Didz
Well of course the big problem with the campiagn map, particularly when it comes to the naval campaign is that there is no reason to scatter your fleet in small packets around the world, nor is there any disadvantage to massing a huge fleet of the largest ships you can build.

Part of the reason large fleets of huge ships works as a naval strategy in ETW and NTW is because the evade system does not allow small ships to evade larger slower heavy ones. Thus allowing large ships to perform roles for which historically they were unsuited, and consequently rendering the role of pirates, privateers and commence raiders impractical at a strategic level. That in turn making it unecessary to build and deploy commence protection vessels to hunt them down.

Historically, of course the adage always was that there were never enough frigates, and the reason for that was that the larger ships of the line simply could not catch anything other than another ship of the line, and so the only way to protect ones trade routes was to deploy large numbers of smaller vessels to patrol those trade routes and keep them safe from pirates and privateers.
Yeah, and there are other gameplay problems. If your fleet gets attacked at atrade spot and you hit the retreat button, the pathfinding will often let your fleet run into the map edge, so the pursuers can catch you easily even if you had enough movement points to outrun them. Using small ships is realy pointless in NTW.

10. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

You can - and should - develop a mod according to your own idea. You cannot however tell people how to use your mod and what they can't do with it for their personal needs... See, there are certain things you can and should do, and other things you can't.You can also regulate the copyright of the mod.

11. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by jackendonald
You can - and should - develop a mod according to your own idea. You cannot however tell people how to use your mod and what they can't do with it for their personal needs... See, there are certain things you can and should do, and other things you can't.You can also regulate the copyright of the mod.
Ehrm...yeah...this reminds me of something.

12. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

122 in ottomans? seems not a good idea.

13. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by yazzazin
122 in ottomans? seems not a good idea.
LOL
you're a historian? you are not familiar with the history

14. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Looks Like a good mod.

A couple of things that you did not address with the readon for the points of sailing.

A broad reach is more effective than running, not just because of the rear studding sail, but also due to the nature of rocking.

whe running the tendency for the boat to pitch is greatly increased reducing its effectiveness to 'slice' through the waves resulting with a large proportion of its power being dissapated by the oncoming swell.

When reaching broadly, then the vessels have both the ability for a greater sailpower but less of this rocking motion due to the angle of the vessel in the water and hence a greater amount of power that is utilised for movement.

just FYI.

great job though.

15. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Hey guys

Does this Mod work with Toons All in One mod? I dont think so, because when I double click on your mod icon it appears just shortly, even not one second...

thanks

16. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Originally Posted by Yarkis
Yeah, and there are other gameplay problems. If your fleet gets attacked at atrade spot and you hit the retreat button, the pathfinding will often let your fleet run into the map edge, so the pursuers can catch you easily even if you had enough movement points to outrun them. Using small ships is realy pointless in NTW.
This is true, although if you have the patience I've found that often if you accept battle and then immediately order you smaller fleet to withdraw the game engine will often plot a new retreat path and allow your fleet to escape.

I've actually had situations where I've had to accept and withdraw from three or more battles before the game finally allows me to evade a battle intact.

17. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Great mod guys, I just started playing it. I do have one question which is something that NTW and ETW sea battles had never replicated. Does your mod increase damage for bow/stern rakes? I'm pretty sure in vanilla there is no effect. Anyways great work and +rep

18. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

as I use this mod, having installed the napoleonics NTW3?

19. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

I use TROM2 but I suspect this mod will conflict with it. Is that the case?

20. ## Re: BEST Realistic Naval Mod for NTW - GRAND FLEET v2.01 *** 01/06/10 *** NEW

Does this work with Toons All in one super mod?

thnx,

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last