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Thread: Playing Isengard

  1. #41
    Kihei
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    why turtle to turn 50? i waited 13 turns b4 i went for Rohan and i did great. just for gods pity attack the settlements directly, regardless of casualties. Sarumanīs army is a siege army not a field one. if you go into sieges you completely deny any of rohanīs advantages. they have crappy infantry barley capable of standing man to man with uruk hai, and their cavalry is nearly worthless in sieges, where they dont get to charge. attack and capture, leave a small goblin horde to guard settlement and move on. Isengard is not equipped for attritional warfare. its either a fast win or you going into attrition, nothing good when facing against Rohan In VH/VH with its spawning forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean=A=Luc View Post
    What the hell is wrong with you people?

  2. #42
    Supai
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    should rohan spawn full stacks in cities when cities are under siege? i attacked one city which had maybe 2-4 units.. next turn he counters me with full stack.. in the city ( no it wasnt some help from outside.. i checked twice after reload.. ) it was vh/vh

  3. #43
    Gazi Husrev-Beg's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by desean View Post
    i played with Isengard once, things were hard at first, best strategy is to keep peace and trade rights with everyone (ignore early crusades) and blitz all rebel settlements to your west, after that turtle up till turn 50, during that time focus on economy and pretty much everything in isengard fortress.
    after you get your heavy troops just make a initial first stack, and keep some troops to guard settlements then go to war with rohan, and remember to rush to siege battles.
    Isengards army after turn 50 is one of the heaviest armies in middle earth and virtually unbeatable by rohan, i suggest that your main target to be Helm's Deep (like in the movies ) because that way you get a second fortress to build and repair your armies twice as fast
    after some battles with rohan i got remorses and bored, and later i heard that Sauroman actualy wanted to overthrow Sauron, so i returned most settlements to Rohan (except Helm's Deep) got military access, allied with gondor and attacked Mordor, if someone hasnt tried let me assure you guys, the clash between Mordor and Isengard gives birth to some of the most epic battles i had playing this mod

    Uruk-hai Berserkers vs Olog-Hai Trolls ---> EPIC
    Nice strategy...will keep that in mind...
    Fighting with the Wisdom, the Bosnian Kingdom

  4. #44
    Russian Gondor's Avatar Minecraft TWC PVP
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Well. It's been said in other places, but playing Isengard can be rough...especially since you're depending on snaga archers and skirmishers instead of Dunlendings. It takes at least 30+ turns for the main Dunlending town to even increase in tier and give you more than foresters.

    What I've had great success doing on VH/VH, is actually manage to ALLY with Rohan. It takes some work and quite a bit of cash, and a little bit of luck. But it's totally doable. I even got my Reputation to reliable from occupying towns and releasing prisoners.

    What helped me do this was dashing up and grabbing Fangorn, and offering it as part of my alliance offer.

    Meanwhile, you have to move fast to get Tharbad and Ost-in-Esthil before Eriador and the misty mountain orcs. The latter will always get to Ost first, but tend to be defeated, leaving it weaker.

    After that, it is a mad dash to the coast...There are between 2-4 provinces to pick up there, down to the sea, and how many you get depends on luck, with the High Elves, Rohan and Eriador closing in around that time too.

    Eventually, Rohan and Gondor will become distracted with Mordor and Harad.

    Eriador will probably attack you first. Fortunately, their armies suck - even if they spam a whole lot of them. It can be tedious at the start, since Isengard is far from the main action, and it takes like 4 turns even to get to Staddle from your borders. You'll be fighting with A LOT of snagas, goblins and the occasional dunlending band.

    But you should be able to eventually eat into Eriador, even if they constantly spawn 21-unit stacks.

    The Orcs of the Misty Mountain won't do much except get the kicked out of them by everyone. Even the dwarves alone will maul them. But they will still distract other factions for a while.

    Eventually, around the time you've fought up to the Shire, the High Elves and the Dwarves will get involved. And at it this same time, your supply line problems will just barely begin to ease...as places like Bree start being able to put out something besides goblins.

    But make no mistake...Even up until turn 100, 95% of your armies will consist of goblins and snagas, even when recruiting all the wargs and foresters you can, simply because Isengard is so far from the actions. By the time your Dunlending towns manage to grow (they start off incredibly weak), you won't need them. You'll already be able to get more and better troops from places conquered in Eriador on on flank, and Isengard will be churning out better troops for any potential fight on the eastern flank. So there is never any reason to recruit the clansmen and levy archers. Which is sad, and an oversight in design, I think.

    You can apparently recruit Uruk-Hai archers in Bree, but not Dunlendings.

    Anyways. That's what makes the 'Eriador' first strategy so tedious for Isengard. Your long supply lines and having to fight with stacks of 20 snagas/goblins. It's different with Rohan and Gondor, since Isengard is right there.

    By focusing on Eriador first, Rohan and Gondor together will probably hold their own. In fact, in my current game, Gondor is number one, and the first evil Invasion has been called on E. Osgiliath. I've been in all out war with the remnants of Eriador (finally reduced to one province in the farthest north), a powerful dwarf faction and the annoying high elves. The OoTMM are close to breaking, but I think they might hold if the dwarves get distracted enough by me (they just recently came in to help the HE, after the HE came in to help Eriador).

    I'll admit. It's been very hard and very tedious. But when I eventually have everything west of the misty mountains, I'll be able to combine everything in Isengard and really unleash hell. Maybe even supplant Sauron!

    So allying with Rohan works.

    Sorry for the large quote. But the only enemy nation worth allying with is OOTM when playing for any of the elves. Because ( especially for the green elves ), Mordor is your primary target.

  5. #45
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by White Hand View Post
    Do not doubt the power of the Uruk-Hai.

    That white hand is with you
    Never fight the Elves in open field. Its a death trap for any army unless you have Armored Trolls. What you want to do is attack their cities with lots of Raider Uruk-Hai. They are great for taking walls.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by desean View Post
    i played with Isengard once, things were hard at first, best strategy is to keep peace and trade rights with everyone (ignore early crusades) and blitz all rebel settlements to your west, after that turtle up till turn 50, during that time focus on economy and pretty much everything in isengard fortress.
    after you get your heavy troops just make a initial first stack, and keep some troops to guard settlements then go to war with rohan, and remember to rush to siege battles.
    Isengards army after turn 50 is one of the heaviest armies in middle earth and virtually unbeatable by rohan, i suggest that your main target to be Helm's Deep (like in the movies ) because that way you get a second fortress to build and repair your armies twice as fast
    after some battles with rohan i got remorses and bored, and later i heard that Sauroman actualy wanted to overthrow Sauron, so i returned most settlements to Rohan (except Helm's Deep) got military access, allied with gondor and attacked Mordor, if someone hasnt tried let me assure you guys, the clash between Mordor and Isengard gives birth to some of the most epic battles i had playing this mod

    Uruk-hai Berserkers vs Olog-Hai Trolls ---> EPIC
    Dude, I ended up allied to Rohan and Gondor within the first few turns. Not sure how, I think it cost me like 10k in gold. But I did it and it was AWESOME! When the High Elves declared war are me, Rohan started raiding their armies! I say raiding because they never took any settlements, just fought each other over and over and over. Which in its own right bought me a lot of time. URUK-HAI INFANTRY for the win!

  7. #47
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Gondor View Post
    Sorry for the large quote. But the only enemy nation worth allying with is OOTM when playing for any of the elves. Because ( especially for the green elves ), Mordor is your primary target.
    Rather then fighting the Misty Mountain Orcs, I went to war with them right away and wiped them out by turn 30. The few elite units I started with as Isengard just walked the Orcs. I put snagas as fodder up front and then just bashed away. In my Isengard game I'm allied with Rohan, Gondor and Dwarves. Friendly with Silvian Elves and Dale. At war with High Elves, Eriador (why aren't they Arnor???) and Mordor.

    We've talked about fighting the High Elves a lot, but with Eriador the best is to use Wargs. They rely on their archers and cheap AP units. Wargs just over run them and are great for eating Hobbit Archers.

  8. #48
    Lunater's Avatar Murakawa
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Waaait, how'd you manage to ally with them? I understood that the evil factions don't get diplomats.

  9. #49
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Well in 1.3 which is the version I have evil has diplomats. Also sometimes they'll ask for a ceasefire, agree then bribe them for an alliance. Rohan makes good allies because for whatever reason they don't seem to care about expanding but they'll still cut through your lands to attack anyone they aren't allied to. For the sake of it to, they won't even capture cities, just run around killing people.

  10. #50
    Lunater's Avatar Murakawa
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepcrush View Post
    Well in 1.3 which is the version I have evil has diplomats. Also sometimes they'll ask for a ceasefire, agree then bribe them for an alliance. Rohan makes good allies because for whatever reason they don't seem to care about expanding but they'll still cut through your lands to attack anyone they aren't allied to. For the sake of it to, they won't even capture cities, just run around killing people.

    Aaa, thank you. 2.0 seems to be the only version my computer runs, so my Isengard is stuck without diplomats. ^^

    Shame, though. In my humble opinion, Isengard should've at least had one diplomat at start, since we all know there was this little man called Grima around...

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunater View Post
    Waaait, how'd you manage to ally with them? I understood that the evil factions don't get diplomats.
    Isengard get diplomats

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  12. #52
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunater View Post
    Aaa, thank you. 2.0 seems to be the only version my computer runs, so my Isengard is stuck without diplomats. ^^

    Shame, though. In my humble opinion, Isengard should've at least had one diplomat at start, since we all know there was this little man called Grima around...
    For me, Isengard was the swing vote. If Saruman had waited a little longer to attack or maybe have just decided that he didn't feel like serving to the wants of Mordor. Then I don't see a problem with him maybe telling Sauron to shove off in favor of building his own kingdom without having to fight the better built kingdoms south of him. Invading north makes a lot more sense from a tactical point of view.

  13. #53
    Lunater's Avatar Murakawa
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by slowbro View Post
    Isengard get diplomats

    *goes whip the people of Dunland*

    Breed faster, you fools!



    Quote Originally Posted by Deepcrush View Post
    For me, Isengard was the swing vote. If Saruman had waited a little longer to attack or maybe have just decided that he didn't feel like serving to the wants of Mordor. Then I don't see a problem with him maybe telling Sauron to shove off in favor of building his own kingdom without having to fight the better built kingdoms south of him. Invading north makes a lot more sense from a tactical point of view.
    Saruman always was arrogant; perhaps he believed his armies invincible.
    Plus, after Gandalf & the crew released Theoden from his power, war was quite inevitable.

  14. #54
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Saruman always was arrogant; perhaps he believed his armies invincible.
    Very possible, but there is also that little chance he had gone mad...

    Plus, after Gandalf & the crew released Theoden from his power, war was quite inevitable.
    Well the mistake was pushing to that point at all. Saruman should have helped Dunland rebel against Rohan, then step in and take over. By the time Gandalf came around Saruman could have already released his hold. Leaving him in a strong position without the risk of Rohan really becoming aggressive since Rohan was going to have to help Gondor in the coming war. Would have left Saruman free to march north and claim, at that time, mostly unclaimed lands.

    Looking at a map before taking sides, thats what I would have done... and did in my game.

  15. #55
    Lunater's Avatar Murakawa
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepcrush View Post
    Very possible, but there is also that little chance he had gone mad...

    Well the mistake was pushing to that point at all. Saruman should have helped Dunland rebel against Rohan, then step in and take over. By the time Gandalf came around Saruman could have already released his hold. Leaving him in a strong position without the risk of Rohan really becoming aggressive since Rohan was going to have to help Gondor in the coming war. Would have left Saruman free to march north and claim, at that time, mostly unclaimed lands.

    Looking at a map before taking sides, thats what I would have done... and did in my game.
    You do represent quite a interesting "alternate reality"-scenario there. It'd be interesting to see how differently things would have gone that way...

    However, purely for the sake of argument, I believe it is unlikely that Gandalf, Aragorn or perhaps even Theoden (without counsel from the first two) would have allowed the threat of Saruman remain unchecked while they march off to Gondor.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    You do represent quite a interesting "alternate reality"-scenario there. It'd be interesting to see how differently things would have gone that way...
    For me its fun to mix things up. If I want to know how things will turn out by sticking only to the historical record... I'll read the books again. I play games like this and other Total War games because I want to see things turn out differently. An Isengard that starts evil and then says "nevermind, we don't answer to Mordor".

    Plus seeing Wargs and Armored Uruk-Hai marching side by side with Rohan in battle against orcs or elves is just sexy!

    However, purely for the sake of argument, I believe it is unlikely that Gandalf, Aragorn or perhaps even Theoden (without counsel from the first two) would have allowed the threat of Saruman remain unchecked while they march off to Gondor.
    True, but also that's because Saruman became to big of a threat. He spent to much time attacking south. He shouldn't have attacked south at all. Once he took control of the "rebel Dunlandings" its easy to just look away while everyone else deals with the big threat to the east.

    Think of it this way, either fight Isengard who isn't at war with you and is in fact fighting against the Orcs north of you. Or go and help your allies in Gondor who are fighting Mordor, Rhun, Harad and Khand! Rohan has to pick since when Gondor stands alone as AI, it starts getting its but kicked around turn 60 when all of Sauron's armies have finally come together.

  17. #57
    Hellboy's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazi Husrev-Beg View Post
    . First time I thought I am doing pretty well, than suddenly I see 2-3 Rohan full stacks...hey I am supposed to be a horde or something playing on H/H
    Yeah when a factions start loseing an army pops up to help them out,I really hate it! I dont mind the boost in money and the garrison script for AI but actualy just giving them full stacks I feel is going to far

  18. #58
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    The full stacks wouldn't be bad if they were just rabble of some kind. Like having the people of the city coming together to try and defend. But I agree its just stupid when you've pushed an enemy back and then he just spawns stacks of elite units.

  19. #59
    Taihō no heishi
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    Your best bet, presuming you WANT to fight anyone in particular immediately, is to deal with Eriador first, then Rohan(Please remember owning Shire-Westfarthing is one of your campaign targets, and given Eriador WILL convert to Arnor beyond Turn 85 if Aragorn's still about, you now have a real reason to want to deal with the matter swiftly). Their recruitment is sucky, as is their unit roster early on. The Garrison Script is probably the only thing keeping Eriador alive.

    Though I have to ask: why is it Isengard has to get Tier 2 Stables for Warg Riders when the Orcs of the Misty Mountains and the Orcs of Gundabad get theirs at tier 1? Quality is not the answer, as the Orc versions are lesser than Isengard's by one point of attack only. The stats are otherwise identical, and the cost markup for that single point is minor(+40 Initial, +20 upkeep for Isengard Wargs vs Orc Wargs).
    Last edited by Bloodly; July 29, 2010 at 02:43 PM.

  20. #60
    Deepcrush's Avatar Wimmer
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    Default Re: Playing Isengard

    The wargs could just an oversight.

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