Imperial guard-useless?

[cenkiss]

Do you try playing with imperial guard on dawn of war.They are the weakest faction.And you need to add different kind of depos to everyone of those machine shops while others just have it.They have less builders than others.Their builders can defend themselves but only against one or two enemies.They have no close quarter units,no good shooting units and they have very few units.Why should anyone play with them?

[Sidmen]

Because they are the most fun faction?

[HansDuet]

They have no close quarter units,no good shooting units and they have very few units.Why should anyone play with them?

Stormtroopers? Ogryns? Heavy weapons team? Leman Russ? Basilisk? Baneblade? With commissar/Priest/Psyker attached to upgraded guardsmen team they can be pretty solid and cheap wall of infantry.

Have you played the actual game?

[hellheaven1987]

Imperial Guards is weak in DoW?? What?? Want me to smash your butt using Baneblade??

The weakest faction in DoW1 is Dark Eldar, follow by Sister of Battle. Both have no good units to compete equally with other factions in same tier, and their super weapons are quite laughtable weak.

[cenkiss]

Of course i played the game.Imperial units are just weak.Guardsmen easily lose moral even with a commander attached.Heavy weapons team can't take any punishment.They easily die to some sluggas.Ogryns are not strong too.
You need to put depots to be able to build other kind of vehicles.And you need to do it for every machine shop you build.You need to add quarters for ogryns and kasrkin which are just a little stronger than guardsmen.And you can only build 1 of these units.You can't get into close combat.Units have very weak defense.Only things good about imperials are that they are cheap and they can fire from very far away.But still they are mostly inaccurate.Basilisks fire from very far away but they may not hit anything.
Firing from far away is just boring.
And i don't think sisters are weak.Their units can take punishment and accurate.Celestians easily can kill a baneblade with their melta-guns.Their aircraft has melta too which just destroys others aircraft.

[HansDuet]

I don't share your opinion/observation.

IG is quite good faction, not as good as Space Marines but definatly not the weakest. Fun to play too, commissar led IG guards are just ballsy. Execute one cheap guardsmen, immediatly restore morale. Build another guardsman.

[The Gallant Forty-Twa]

I'm sorry but its quite obvious you just can't play Imperial Guard. I suggest you go and play with a basic faction which has units for everything as it will suit you better.

It is a fact that the Imperial Guard are not a uselss army, they aren't weak and they are powerful. When you have Leman Russes, Basilisks, Hellhounds, Kasrkin, Ogryns, Commissars/Priests etc and not to mention a frickin' Baneblade you are incredibly strong. You just don't know how to use them or how they play, and you appear unwilling to learn. You can upgrade your Guardsmen squads to be packed full of men with tons of Plasma Guns which rape Marine units or Grenade Launchers which rape Ork mobs and other mob units.

And you claim they have no melee or shooty units? Errr, did you stick around long enough to find Ogryns or Kasrkin? IG aren't even meant to be a close combat race, after all how could basic men with a small bayonet possibly compete with Space Marines or Orks in melee? If you want melee fighters, play Orks (which incidently have few good shooty units cause they aren't geared towards that playstyle. The point I'm trying to make here is that each faction has its own style and purpose - the IG like to shoot). The only point you make which I find valid is that to get fancy units you have to upgrade each building one at a time for a single thing to become unlocked. When all it takes for other factions is a simple HQ upgrade, this is totally unfair (some need one-off upgrades to get access to stuff like Hammerheads, but its one-off and counts for everything not just one building). I mean, for us to get a simple Sentinel with Lascannon you need to build the depot, spend time and money unlocking the research then finally build one. This is the one of the few let downs of the IG, but it doesn't make them weak by any stretch of the imagination.

And I think we can safely assume you didn't bother sticking around for the Leman Russ tanks or, more importantly, the Baneblade.

My only other issue with them is that to increase the Vehicle and Infantry caps you need to build numerous buildings. This isn't as bad when its a barracks but when you have to build a total of three huge tank depots just to get some cap points its ridiculous, especially when other factions get this stuff in terms of a quick and easy research. Other than that, they have no problems. They are just soldiers, remember. The whole idea of the IG is that you don't rely on their basic Guardsmen as they are just soldiers in a flak vest with a flashlight for a gun. The IG prosper due to their bountiful amount of vehicles, fire support units and heavy artillery which I suggest you use.

From the way you post, I suggest you go and play Orks. They suit you better if you want an army that doesn't sit back and shoot but just rushes in madly with melee.

[Poach]

Gallant is correct, you simply can't play Guard. They're the most difficult faction to play correctly, and far from the weakest.

Infact, the Guardsman Rush, if orchestrated by a skilled player, is nigh unbeatable. Back when I played DoW I'd win 70-80% of my games using the rush, because even if the initial rush itself failed I'd be a tier ahead in tech and be hitting his infantry with light armour, his light armour with battle tanks and his battle tanks with a Baneblade.

Quite frankly, 2 or 3 Guardsman squads equipped with grenade launchers and a Commissar in one squad can delay and even beat an equal number of enemy troops for as long as you want: they cost next to nothing to replace, replace quickly, shoot 3 times faster using the Commissar's execution and their grenade launchers knock enemy troops over. A spam of grenades means they pretty much don't get shot at.

Any that get caught in melee just run away whilst the other two squads pound their persuers with grenades. The micromanagement required to use the Guard properly is difficult to learn but when you do you can really dish out punishment.

Also, pinning an enemy with Guardsmen and then having three Basilisks fire their Earth-Shattering (iirc? their special ability) round can knock out an entire enemy army, pretty much winning you the game.

So, in agreement with Gallant Forty-Twa; L2P.

[hellheaven1987]

My only other issue with them is that to increase the Vehicle and Infantry caps you need to build numerous buildings. This isn't as bad when its a barracks but when you have to build a total of three huge tank depots just to get some cap points its ridiculous, especially when other factions get this stuff in terms of a quick and easy research. Other than that, they have no problems. They are just soldiers, remember. The whole idea of the IG is that you don't rely on their basic Guardsmen as they are just soldiers in a flak vest with a flashlight for a gun. The IG prosper due to their bountiful amount of vehicles, fire support units and heavy artillery which I suggest you use.

That is not a bad thing since it means you can garrison several buildings fully when necessaried - do I have to mentioned that three Mech Engineers in barrack can shoot out plasma and a lot of bolts??

[cenkiss]

Yes.Actually i like playing with orks but still imperials are just inaccurate and deal very small damage.

[The Gallant Forty-Twa]

Cenkiss just stop. You're embarrassing yourself. A Baneblade deals very small damage?

Fair enough saying their style doesn't suit you, but its simply not true that they are weak. So try saying things like "I don't like their style.... In my opinion I don't like the way they work..." cause you are, to put it bluntly, speaking bollocks.

Instead of speaking in such a general term and saying "they suck", tell me each thing individually in detail which you find bad and which in your opinion makes them weak. Explain your argument using examples because right now you just have no credibility. If you explain what your specific issues are, we can explain why they aren't a disadvantage and why they don't make them weak.

The IG don't play like Space Marines for example. A single Guardsmen squad can't cope with the same stuff a Tactical Squad can hence the reason why they are so much cheaper and have so many more men per unit than Tac Squads. IG requires lots of micromanagement and fire support. As Poach said, it isn't an easy faction to master.

[cenkiss]

Baneblade is their top-end weapon.I am not just talking about that.I am talking general.

[The Gallant Forty-Twa]

Well talking generally that includes the Baneblade cause you are giving an overall opinion. As I said, break each thing down in detail so we can explain why they aren't weak.

[cenkiss]

I have already detailed opinions on each unit.

[The Gallant Forty-Twa]

But we kinda proved those not to be faults.

I think its just a case that you don't know how to play IG. I'm not slagging you for it, I can't play Eldar well at all despite having DoW since it was released. Its simply a case of moving on to another faction cause if you are feeling this negative with them before actually learning how to play then don't bother.

[cenkiss]

You may be right.I just compare squiggoth with baneblade and baneblade seems very weak with no melee.Ogryn compared to a nob,nob crashes it.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

accusing the imperial legions in such a manner tsktsk..

its true they are unwieldy, weak and incompetent and at best complete fodder....

but given the right commander, the right leadership and the right management they are truly a force to be reckoned with in all the far reaches of the imperium.
save for the mighty Astartes themselves the Guard are the backbone of the imperium fighting forces.

if you base it merely on DOW, like in other replies above you are just highlighting your inept ability, i mean mentioning orks in the same capacity..... anyone can organise a 'squad' of filth and brutish muscle and point in the right dierection

to control a mere couple dozen units...... whats so hard about that......if you are referring to the guard on the broad scope of the whole 40k universe then you are really confused....

myself as a dedicated Commander of the noble Astartes i respect and honour the guard as they rightly deserve...!




so is it the guard that is weak??

or the commander?

[The Gallant Forty-Twa]

Its the Commander. Imperial Guard are actually more powerful in DoW than the tabletop. Try that one out!

And OP, you seriously expect me to take you seriously when you about a huge TANK not having a melee attack? What the hell do you want it to do? Morph into some badass Mech like Optimus Prime?

What is your fascination with melee? Imperial Guard ARE NOT a melee army! If you want a mindless melee army which requires nothing but a large box and a right click on an enemy, then play Orks. Imperial Guard are not a melee army, and I'm sorry but the comparison of a tank to what is essentially a Dinosaur is laughable.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

Its the Commander. Imperial Guard are actually more powerful in DoW than the tabletop. Try that one out!

And OP, you seriously expect me to take you seriously when you about a huge TANK not having a melee attack? What the hell do you want it to do? Morph into some badass Mech like Optimus Prime?

LOL

damn straight!!

in DoW Dark crusade, soulstorm even winter assault th IG kick heretical ass all over the place, i used to play them tabletop a long time ago so i definately concur...

you have to be a wiley field commander on the tabletop with the Guard, my admiration for any player who is guard..a formidable opponent and a deadly opponent

my regiment used to be Tanith 1st and only in memory of Commisar Colonel Ibram Gaunt......

[mic1402]

The ig in DOW are more like the tabletop versions then the ones in winter assault.