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Thread: [OUT OF DATE] Hungary Sub-mod v1.1

  1. #1
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Icon3 [OUT OF DATE] Hungary Sub-mod v1.1




    Updated 21-01-2011.

    Changelog:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    - Updated for DMUC 6.8 or above
    - Fixed the revolution so now you can change government in Transylvania.
    - Merged Hun_units.pack and Hungarybuilding.pack into a single file: Hun_mod.pack



    The idea is making Hungary a playable faction based on
    Rákóczis War for Independence (1703-1711.)

    I'd like it to be a hard and challenging campaign.
    Hungary starts with 2 regions (no major city but a special prestige building available in Transylvania).


    Any suggestions, ideas and help are much appreciated.



    Hungarian units

    Here is the new unit roster (except for some basics like line infantry and dragoons)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Unit list:
    New Units

    Székely hunters
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Székely infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Hajdu raiders & cavalry

    Hajdu infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Mounted Marksman
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Hungarian Noble Guard
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Baranyay hussars

    Hadik hussars
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Units that were already in DMUC (created by danova):
    Kökényesdi riflemen
    Royal Hungarian line infantry
    Hungarian granadiers
    Hungarian hussars
    Kurucz hussars
    Dessewffy Hussars
    Eszterházy Hussars



    Download Links:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Installation notes:

    Copy
    startpos.esf and
    scripting.lua
    to your games data/campaigns/DMUC_Cmain folder

    Copy
    Hun_mod.pack
    and
    unit_pack_compatibility_project_v5_83.pack
    to your games data folder

    In the DMUC launcher edit the Custom Campaign script and add these two new lines to the top:
    mod hun_mod.pack;


    Download links:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2881



    Historical Pictures
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Dessewffy Hussars
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Eszterházy Hussars
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Line infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 







    New units:

    Hajdú infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Line infantry(left side) and Hajdú infantry (left side at the back)



    Székely infantry
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Hungarian noble guard
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Baranyay Hussars
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Hadik Hussars

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Xwhyzed; January 21, 2011 at 04:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Michadon's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Hi xwhyzed, I like your idea of making Hungary a playable faction very much. For some reason I am annoyed by the large size of Austria every campaign, they ow half of europe quit quickly and become very powerfull every time again. Adding Hungary as a faction will solve this annoyance and will be a challenging faction to play with. I would like to help youbut have no modding experience whatsoever (none, nothing). I could advise you on some points (which regions they should have (apart from hungary, obviously), which other units you could add and other minor stuff).

    I'll be following this one.

  3. #3
    ♔ Tsar ♔'s Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    You don't have Hajdu unit !!!
    Thats Croatian unit, Hajduk !!!

  4. #4
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔ Tsar ♔ View Post
    You don't have Hajdu unit !!!
    Thats Croatian unit, Hajduk !!!
    Take a look at the reference pictures...

    They might were also Croatian but:

    The hajdús were a saparate class in Hungarian society. Originaly armed drovers in the early 16th century escorting and protecting cattle they also assisted battles against the Ottoman army. Soon they became dependant of war, making their living as mercenarys.
    In the 16-17th century there were two sorts of hajdús, those who recieved regular payment from the goverment and were stationed in outposts along the border and others whowere free-lancers. They were often banned from the country since they raided settlements when they had nothing else to do.

    Later many (tens of thousands) of them were given land and special rights (they weren't under the authority of land-lords/nobles but they were obliged to go to war when the king called them) so they could settle down.
    They existed until the end of the 18th century when the nobels started to take away their rights and slowly forced them to serfdom.

    There is county and many cities named after them where they settled. North-Eastern part of Hungary (nowhere near Croatia)

    Maybe the two nations used the term 'hajdu' for different people. In Hungary it wasn't an ethnical group rather a soical class...
    Last edited by Xwhyzed; May 12, 2010 at 07:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Michadon View Post
    Hi xwhyzed, I like your idea of making Hungary a playable faction very much. For some reason I am annoyed by the large size of Austria every campaign, they ow half of europe quit quickly and become very powerfull every time again. Adding Hungary as a faction will solve this annoyance and will be a challenging faction to play with. I would like to help youbut have no modding experience whatsoever (none, nothing). I could advise you on some points (which regions they should have (apart from hungary, obviously), which other units you could add and other minor stuff).

    I'll be following this one.

    I was thinking Hungary and Transylvania for starting regions.

    I'm always looking for new possible units so all suggestions are welcome
    Last edited by Xwhyzed; May 12, 2010 at 07:01 AM.

  6. #6
    Michadon's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Hungary is obvious that that has to be a starting region. And about transylvania I'm not so sure. It is a good choice, but would a more southern region not be a better option>? Thoise southern regions migth be under threath from the ottomans though. Transylvania could thus be the better choise indeed. You might want to start by giving them transylvania, and playing a couple of turns in a campaign. I could test it as well.

    But you must consider the game-balance. What happens to austria if it loses some of its regions. Would it still be able to sustain itself agains Prussia, Poland and the Ottomans? Would it be better to make the Hungary faction a protectorate? All things to consider and test.

  7. #7
    Kaunitz's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Hi!
    Well again, it's a "what if" (Rácóczi was successfull)-mod, but I find it interesting. There is a setback though, that if you want to represent the "rebellion", we'd need to have an engine that manages to represent unconventional warfare much better. Afaik, Rácóczis troops were not supposed to fight in pitched battles but were largely composed of irregulars? But we'll have to live with that.

    We'll have to invent some units or huddle together units from different times and situations. E.g. the hungarian noble guard has been established in 1760 and was rather used to educate the offspring of the hungarian hungarian nobility. Like other "national" guards units (non-national beeing the Trabanten and Hartschieren Guards; other national noble guards: e.g. the "Galicia guard" established in 1782; Swiss guard from 1745 to 1767) at the habsburg court in Vienna, the Hungarian Noble Guard was not supposed to fight in wars, but to serve at prestigious events. Actually, these guard units were much too small for combat.

    As for Croatian/Slawonian and Grenzer-units: I don't have a problem with them. Croatia-Slawonia has been loosly attached to Hungary (okay, Hungary was angry at Habsburg just as Croatia-Slawonie was angry at Hungary.... ). Grenzers, on the other hand, were neither austrian nor hungarian nor croatian-slawonian. They were directly subjected to the habsburg court.
    KAUNITZ PROJECT
    - a modding project for a better representation of XVIIIth century warfare -

  8. #8
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    adding a southern region wouldn't be historically accurate Transylvania was part of Hungary from 1003. until the first WW

    Balance will be an issue but Hungary would be fighting the Ottomans
    that will have to be tested later on

  9. #9
    Michadon's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    it would be nice to have that 'rebellion' feel right from the start. So my question, as a knownothingaboutmodding person: is it possible to have a playable nation start with no regions but with a 'rebellion' army instead? If this is possible it would remove the 'which regions should they have' argument. I fear it isn't possible though.

    About the unit roster, which is a difficult subject. If, as Kaunitz pointed out, the Hungarians were not used to fight in pitched battles, but rather with a more 'querilla' style, their unit roster should reflect that. But doesn't this create a impossible to play faction>? Because if you are attacked by a full stack of line infantry, cannons and sufficient cavalry (which the CAI now use in DM 6.0) you will have no chance with a few guerilla troops. Therefore a sollid backbone is needed for the Hungarians, besides from Hussars. I think Line Infantry (normal or some special Hungarian style of line infantry) should be in the unit roster.

  10. #10
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaunitz View Post
    Hi!
    Well again, it's a "what if" (Rácóczi was successfull)-mod, but I find it interesting. There is a setback though, that if you want to represent the "rebellion", we'd need to have an engine that manages to represent unconventional warfare much better. Afaik, Rácóczis troops were not supposed to fight in pitched battles but were largely composed of irregulars? But we'll have to live with that.

    We'll have to invent some units or huddle together units from different times and situations. E.g. the hungarian noble guard has been established in 1760 and was rather used to educate the offspring of the hungarian hungarian nobility. Like other "national" guards units (non-national beeing the Trabanten and Hartschieren Guards; other national noble guards: e.g. the "Galicia guard" established in 1782; Swiss guard from 1745 to 1767) at the habsburg court in Vienna, the Hungarian Noble Guard was not supposed to fight in wars, but to serve at prestigious events. Actually, these guard units were much too small for combat.
    They weren't irregulars Rákóczi was the lord of Transylvania and had his own army. There were some irregular regiments composed of hunters and armed peasants but they were the minority.
    They also had some Poilsh mercenary cavalary.

    As for guard units: every Guard was meant to Protect the ruler and parade at ceremonys not to fight in battles but in ETW they represent the elite units of the game.


    About grenzers if you are referring to the hajdús they are not the same.

  11. #11
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Michadon View Post
    it would be nice to have that 'rebellion' feel right from the start. So my question, as a knownothingaboutmodding person: is it possible to have a playable nation start with no regions but with a 'rebellion' army instead? If this is possible it would remove the 'which regions should they have' argument. I fear it isn't possible though.

    About the unit roster, which is a difficult subject. If, as Kaunitz pointed out, the Hungarians were not used to fight in pitched battles, but rather with a more 'querilla' style, their unit roster should reflect that. But doesn't this create a impossible to play faction>? Because if you are attacked by a full stack of line infantry, cannons and sufficient cavalry (which the CAI now use in DM 6.0) you will have no chance with a few guerilla troops. Therefore a sollid backbone is needed for the Hungarians, besides from Hussars. I think Line Infantry (normal or some special Hungarian style of line infantry) should be in the unit roster.
    I was thinkging about giving them only Transylvania for starting region since Rákóczys lord of Transylvania and starthed marching his armies from there.

    Unit roster: Hungary mostly relied on hussars for cavalary (they didn't have heavy cavalary at all) but they had line infantry same as the Austrians

    Also you have to bear in mind that the game covers up a 100 year era, the war for independence would be just the start

  12. #12
    jogamen's Avatar Kirā
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    i personally would give them one starting region and one army so the player can self decide which region take as next and with austria friendly status.
    i'm from if you like my post or it did helped you, you can +rep me

  13. #13
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by jogamen View Post
    i personally would give them one starting region and one army so the player can self decide which region take as next and with austria friendly status.
    Actually the idea of 2 starting regions was because if I give them only Transylvania (where the war originally started from) I have to make it a Major city.
    But to my present knowledge to make a minor city to major you have to reduce an existing major city to minor

  14. #14
    jogamen's Avatar Kirā
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    if hungary want to survive, it should had at least one good region
    i'm from if you like my post or it did helped you, you can +rep me

  15. #15
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    but wich major city should I reduce? maybe one in south america or africa?

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    Kaunitz's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Can anyone enlighten me regarding the differences between 1. hajdúks, 2. kuruc, 3. pandurs, and 4. Grenzers? Maybe you cannot define them exactly as these terms have been used rather by the "enemies" than by the hajdúks etc. themselves? So these terms may be very woolly, just as the contemporary term "Croat" to refer to anyone who looked hungarian/slawonian/croatian.

    From what I've read so far (didn't put any special attention to those terms though, and I haven't scanned wikipedia yet),

    1. hajdúks refer to mercinaries of the Hungarian-Croatian-Slawonian regions. I think this term dates very far back in history? 16th century?

    2. From latin "cruciatus", meaning crusader? The habsburg refered to them as "Malcontenten" (malcontents). I guess it refers rather to the political movement (which originally started as a peasant rebellion) against habsburg rule in Hungary in the second half of the 17th and early 18th century than to a special military unit? The kuruc have been storngly supported by France + Poland. Forces fighting for the kuruc-cause have actually been engaged in pitched battles, but these were major defeats (e.g. Tyrnau/Trnava 1704, Trencsén 1708). Their strength were raiding parties, raiding deep into enemy territory (Moravia, Lower Austria, Styria) and causing fear.

    3. No idea

    4. Grenzers are people living in a special Grenzer-status (freehold property, only subject to the habsburg ruler, not to croatian-slawonian or hungarian nobility), organised in the military border-zones at the eastern rim of the Habsburh-monarchy: Warasdin-district (financed by Styria), Karlstadt-district (financed by Carinthia and Carniola); each district comprised several capitancies. The Grenzers did unpaid military service and had to keep the border fortifications in good condition. In the middle of the 18th century, the Grenzer-societies have been even more militarized and regular regiments of Grenzers have been established, so that they could be used far away from home.

    Please feel free to correct and add!
    I can also PM a small bibliography to anyone interested (most of it in german though). Maybe I'll have a look at some articles myself.
    Another glitch to represent the kuruc rebellions: fortresses should be more important than they are, I think!

    PS. wikipedia is not bad on that stuff! And here I've found a very short description of the battle at Trencin (in german ; but it refers to hungarian and slovacian literature) link
    Last edited by Kaunitz; May 12, 2010 at 09:06 AM.
    KAUNITZ PROJECT
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  17. #17
    Lexandro81's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Haydut (english) or Hajduk (slawian) is not the discription of a military force. It's more a word for "rebell" or "bandid". These where people (mostly poor people, not nobility) who grabed weapons to fight in a "guerilla-style" against the occupators in their countries. So I think it's ok to say that there where croatian-hayduts, serbian-hayduts, bulgarian-hayduts and hungaryan-hayduts, too. Also bosnia had hayduts, but they in game they are called pandurs.

    Maybe you can call them "Magyar Haydú" or there is a better, more historical word for them.

  18. #18
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaunitz View Post
    Can anyone enlighten me regarding the differences between 1. hajdúks, 2. kuruc, 3. pandurs, and 4. Grenzers? Maybe you cannot define them exactly as these terms have been used rather by the "enemies" than by the hajdúks etc. themselves? So these terms may be very woolly, just as the contemporary term "Croat" to refer to anyone who looked hungarian/slawonian/croatian.

    From what I've read so far (didn't put any special attention to those terms though, and I haven't scanned wikipedia yet),

    1. hajdúks refer to mercinaries of the Hungarian-Croatian-Slawonian regions. I think this term dates very far back in history? 16th century?

    2. From latin "cruciatus", meaning crusader? The habsburg refered to them as "Malcontenten" (malcontents). I guess it refers rather to the political movement (which originally started as a peasant rebellion) against habsburg rule in Hungary in the second half of the 17th and early 18th century than to a special military unit? The kuruc have been storngly supported by France + Poland. Forces fighting for the kuruc-cause have actually been engaged in pitched battles, but these were major defeats (e.g. Tyrnau 1704, Trencsén 1708). Their strength were raiding parties, raiding deep into enemy territory (Moravia, Lower Austria, Styria) and causing fear.

    3. No idea

    Another glitch to represent the kuruc rebellions: fortresses should be more important than they are, I think!

    PS. wikipedia is not bad on that stuff!
    1. yes 15-16th century oiginally drovers who drove the cattles to sell it Italy and southern Germany
    they had to be skilled with weapons to fight of bandits on the way

    2. According to some sources the word Kuruc could also come from the Ottoman 'khurudzs' meaning insurgent.
    But in the 18-19th all the rebels (who fought against the Habsburg) and their sympathiyzers were called Kuruc

    3. In Hungary originally the pandurs were slavic soldiers guarding the southern borders.
    Later 18-19th century the term 'pandur' also referred to minuteman a sort of poorly trained police force in the countryside. A few dozen of them were stationed in every shire.

    4. no idea

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    Lexandro81's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    @ Kaunitz

    There are many words for this "irregulars" and it depends also of the region.
    As I wrote above I described the meaning of "Haydut". In croatia and parts of bosnia and serbia there where also irregulars called "Uskoci" (difficult to translate, like people who are uprising, revolting).
    Pandurs are the same, it's just a more "harshly" word for Hayduts. If you look at the spanish roster there are a dozen of units who are all the same: irregulars / light infantry


    I have a suggestion to you all. What do you think of making a "Balkan-Mod"? There is already a completly finished Greece-Mod. There are people who are working on a Croatia-Mod. Now this thread with a Hungary-Mod. Only Serbia is missing and we can make a complete Balkan-Mod.
    Croatia and Hungary would be protectorats of Austria. Serbia and Greece will be the same for the Ottomans.
    So the player can choose with which people he wants to play. He can choose if he wants to play as a protectorate of the Austrian-, Ottoman-Empire or if he wants to start an rebellion to free his people (if you want to be in this game independent and you are a protectorate of someone you have to declare war to him). Rumelia and Bosnia should stay normal parts of the Ottoman-Empire, except for we are finding some Bosnian or Macedonian patriots who want to make a mod for this to nations.
    For example the Hungaryan player declares war to Austria, than Croatia will declare war to Hungary (the protectorates always help their protector). Hungary could make peace to croatia an Austria, or fight for their freedom etc. thats the decision of the player and the CAI. It won't be easy, but it would be a challenge for the player.

    Actually everybody can work on his own mod as so far. At the end we would synchronise the startpos-files so the player only needs one Mod for the CustomCampaign (user-friendly).
    I've heard of many (also very famous) modders who have a big interest in modeling units for the Balkans, cause this are very varying multicoloured units with much splendour.
    This mod would also be fun for the Austrian and Ottoman players, cause they will get a complete new challenge to manage their protectorates and to beware of rebellions

  20. #20
    Xwhyzed's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: DMUC Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexandro81 View Post
    Haydut (english) or Hajduk (slawian) is not the discription of a military force. It's more a word for "rebell" or "bandid". These where people (mostly poor people, not nobility) who grabed weapons to fight in a "guerilla-style" against the occupators in their countries. So I think it's ok to say that there where croatian-hayduts, serbian-hayduts, bulgarian-hayduts and hungaryan-hayduts, too. Also bosnia had hayduts, but they in game they are called pandurs.

    Maybe you can call them "Magyar Haydú" or there is a better, more historical word for them.

    yes "Magyar Hajdú" with 'j'

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