Guide to the ETW map

[PietroMicca]

another little (but important) step forward

decoded the last number in the header of grid_data

<v2x x="-10.0" y="-40.0"/><!-- starting point -->
<u2>635</u2><!-- starting x cell -->
<u2>300</u2><!-- starting y cell -->
<i>2097152</i><!-- dimension of cells (2.0) -->
<u>50</u><!-- columns -->
<u>45</u><!-- rows -->
<!-- boundingbox(-10.0,-40.0,90.0,50.0) -->
<u>2386</u> <!-- number of traits + number of empty cells -->
<u2>0</u2><!-- number of passable regions -->
<u2>0</u2><!-- number of listed regions (generally equals to the previous number, but not compulsory) -->

this proves that conceptually empty and not-empty boundaries use the same tag with an empty attribute, vertex_index. We can keep this schema for our xml file, but we'd better remember this concept.

[taw]

Annotation added in code.

[Muizer]

As an aside, I used the opportunity of the release of the Ted editor for battlemaps to ask about the way CA construct their maps. The relevant bit:

we actually use third-party modelling tools for creating the geometry and such a tool doesn't exist in our tool chain, our database editor plugs into that, then there's campaign code, pathfinding code, locomotion, etc.

If I am interpreting this right, then warscape maps were designed originally as vector geometries with attached databases. And that would also be the process one would have to reverse-engineer.

I haven't followed this discussion too closely. How would you say this observation fits with what you've discovered so far?

[PietroMicca]

If I am interpreting this right, then warscape maps were designed originally as vector geometries with attached databases. And that would also be the process one would have to reverse-engineer.

I haven't followed this discussion too closely. How would you say this observation fits with what you've discovered so far?

I guess that Craig simply means that each esf is generated separately. And each esf file contains links to esf, db or animation files. For this reason CA can't release a mod tool for campaign. In fact, not only they do not have this tools, but they do not have idea how it could be. In general we have never met something like "vector geometries with attached databases". Create geometry is just a way to say that CA have never work using coordinates as we have to do. They have some graphical tools allowing them to draw directly map and all their geometries. Coordinates and all other kind of data are generated automatically by those tools when they save their work.

[Muizer]

They have some graphical tools allowing them to draw directly map and all their geometries. Coordinates and all other kind of data are generated automatically by those tools when they save their work.

That's more or less exactly what happens when you work with vector data in a GIS programme. Because the databases are attached to the vector maps (consisting of points, lines, polygons and such), they are automatically updated with every added or changed piece of geometry.
The plug-ins are custom made by CA to produce that output in the format required by the game engine.

Thing is, if that's roughly how it works, then the only way to "map" is to do something to mimic the process. Just editing the databases won't get you very far. It would be like changing a 3D model with a text editor.

[MrClean]

That's more or less exactly what happens when you work with vector data in a GIS programme. Because the databases are attached to the vector maps (consisting of points, lines, polygons and such), they are automatically updated with every added or changed piece of geometry.
The plug-ins are custom made by CA to produce that output in the format required by the game engine.

Thing is, if that's roughly how it works, then the only way to "map" is to do something to mimic the process. Just editing the databases won't get you very far. It would be like changing a 3D model with a text editor.

This sounds similar to all the information Craig has given us to this point. If this is indeed accurate, wouldn't the next step be is to find out which 3rd party GIS application Creative Assembly used for Warscape?

[MrClean]

Nm. I see that you did ask him in the announcement thread and from his non-response I think that we can assume we will not get this info from him.

With that said, I know nothing of GIS programs, but from searching it appears that CA has a history with Autodesk and many of their products. Until we get specific information, would something like AutoCad be a program that we are looking to reverse engineer the process?

[r3deed]

craig said something about the possibilty of cracking the map.
a 3rd party proggram is needed to crack.

is it possible for the community to gain access to such programmes.
I guess these software costs money. some require a powerful computers.
so, I doubt simple tools could do the job. even in the hands of experienced modders.
I guess they need powerful tools. I wish if the community could donate resources to the modders so that they could crack the campain map.

[Muizer]

It could well be a CAD programme they used. Creating a game map representing the actual world has elements of design (CAD programmes) as well as geographic analysis (GIS). As someone interested in realism and mapping I'd favour the GIS approach, but I would expect game developers to favour the design approach. It's a more solid approach to add only to the map what you know will work and is needed than to start out with real world data and try to discard everything that's not needed or won't work.

[Primergy]

I can imagine that they are using the Splines (= vectors) in 3ds Max and then using their custom tools to export the data.

[Slaxx Hatmen]

I can imagine that they are using the Splines (= vectors) in 3ds Max and then using their custom tools to export the data.

This is pretty much what Craig said in the "modding situation" thread when he was answering questions. 3DS Max is what they use to make the actual model of the map then they run it through another program that automatically calculates databases and such for them.

EDIT: Never mind...totally should've read the rest of the thread and realized that's what you guys are trying to put together! So sorry!

[PietroMicca]

The following images are about the hex digit in the middle of unknown2. Each value has a different color. So areas with the same color have the same value. 0 is black.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What we can infer it is just that areas where is not present nothing about slots or roads is black (that is 0).

Can we infer something else?

[uanime5]

The following images are about the hex digit in the middle of unknown2. Each value has a different color. So areas with the same color have the same value. 0 is black.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think the different colours are used to tell ETW which cells allow units to enter and exit buildings.

The purple cells around buildings are where land units can enter and exit this building. Unsure why some cells are blue or green, it's possible that you can't have 2 traits with the same colour.

The roads are probably a different colour so ETW can easily find them.

[adrian74]

hi all i was looking at a site today and i came across this i am wondering if this is the software that ca used to create the map . In the videos section their is one about adding streets trees etc all done by using images . And i am quite sure i saw this in the background in one of ca videos on a pc screen so could be the software they used.
the link is
http://video.arcgis.com/series/62/cityengine/date/desc

dont know if it will help in any way but good luck all
adrian

[Muizer]

Aha, well ArcGIS would mean they did take the GIS route. I think they're the market leader in GIS. Any chance you could point us to the CA video it might be in? I think I'd be able to identify it if it was.

I kind of hate working with ArcGIS, but if 3Dstudio Max is within the capabilities of modders, then ArcGIS certainly is.

[adrian74]

it was one of the fots videos i am off to work now but i will look and see if i can locate when i get back in the morning i know it was one where there was a quick view of a model in z brush i also noticed that as i recognised the the lay out of the software interface and have the demo of it myself.
adrian

[uanime5]

Was it this video? If has several screen shots of the models being made.

[hellfire15]

0:30 = autodesk 3DS max or autodesk MAYA
1:02 = autodesk 3DS max or autodesk MAYA
1:05 = Zbrush
1:08 = autodesk 3DS max or autodesk MAYA
1:58 = autodesk 3DS max or autodesk MAYA
2:10 = autodesk 3DS max or autodesk MAYA



I actually think it's 3DS max, rather than MAYA, but I don't know the difference and I only work with 3DS max at school...

[adrian74]

yes i think it was that video i did look this morning but cold not find it . I could be wrong seeing it again my version of 3ds max is different or at least the lay out of it .
adrian

[MrClean]

I can imagine that they are using the Splines (= vectors) in 3ds Max and then using their custom tools to export the data.

Forgive my ignorance Primergy, but would the data that needed to be exported look like the data you were researching in the Farm textures thread? From my ignorant position, it seems farely relative to what has been going on here.

Or does anyone have thoughts on what kind of custom tool or even how many tools would be needed to export said data into our friendly esf format?

Obviously CA can't release 3ds Max for users to manipulate Splines/vectors, but now I'm wondering if they would be willing to release their custom tools to export the data...