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Thread: Italian States Mod, Version2.03, Final update.

  1. #61
    RexImperator's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Wangrin, the NYPL gallery has alot of these units in their database. Plus instead of the usual practically unreadable cursive writing the unit names are printed on the images.

  2. #62
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    NYPL is a great source but I prefer to find another one to cross results.
    « He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. » Albert EINSTEIN

  3. #63
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by RexImperator View Post
    Wangrin, the NYPL gallery has alot of these units in their database. Plus instead of the usual practically unreadable cursive writing the unit names are printed on the images.
    This has been my main source, and Naples was was a lot easier to see

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    About Kingdom of the Two Sicilies army organization : Vexillologie militaire européenne / Péninsule italienne / Deux-Siciles
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Organisation avant 1783


    Maison du Roi
    • Gardes Royaux du Corps (Reali Guardie del Corpo)
    • Hallebardiers Royaux (Alabardieri Reali)


    Infanterie de la Garde
    • Gardes Suisses (Guardie Svizzere)
    • Gardes Italiennes (Guardie Italiane)


    Infanterie de Ligne
    • Roi (Re) - régiment irlandais
    • Reine (Regina)
    • Royal Bourbon (Real Borbone)
    • Royal Farnese (Real Farnese)
    • Royal Naples (Real Napoli)
    • Royal Palerme (Real Palermo)
    • Royal Italien (Real Italiano)
    • Val di Mazara
    • Valdèmone
    • Val di Noto


    Infanterie suisse
    • Wirtz
    • Tschudi
    • Jauch


    Infanterie étrangère
    • Royal Macedonien (Real Macedone) - régiment albanais, grec, epirote...
    • Bourgogne (Borgogna) - régiment wallon
    • Hainault - régiment wallon
    • Namur - régiment wallon
    • Anvers (Anversa) - régiment wallon


    Infanterie provinciale
    • Terra di Lavoro
    • Principato Ultra
    • Principato Citra
    • Molise
    • Capitanata
    • Abbruzzo Citra
    • Abbruzzo Ultra
    • Bari
    • Basilicata
    • Otranto
    • Calabria Citra
    • Calabria Ultra


    Cavalerie de Ligne
    • Roi (Re)
    • Naples (Napoli)
    • Roussilon (Rossiglione)
    • Sicile (Sicilia)


    Dragons
    • Reine (Regina)
    • Bourbon (Borbone)
    • Prince (Principe)
    • Tarragone (Tarragona)


    Divers
    • Chasseurs des montagnes - Gardes frontières
    • Artillerie

    Now, I have to find pictures...
    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    NYPL is a great source but I prefer to find another one to cross results.
    Thanks, need to get all this info organised so I don't miss anything

  4. #64
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    I've put together NYPL pictures and Kingdom of the Two Sicilies army organization.
    Most of 1730 to 1740 uniform pictures and some of the 1760 to 1778 are organized, but it's not finished.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    « He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. » Albert EINSTEIN

  5. #65
    RexImperator's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Wow, Wangrin...you're awesome.

  6. #66
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    I've put together NYPL pictures and Kingdom of the Two Sicilies army organization.
    Most of 1730 to 1740 uniform pictures and some of the 1760 to 1778 are organized, but it's not finished.
    Quote Originally Posted by RexImperator View Post
    Wow, Wangrin...you're awesome.
    You said it Rex, thank you for all the effort you've put in wangrin, making my life so easy.

  7. #67
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Thanks
    Here, a better work than mine.

    An interesting document about sicilian military uniforms : Abiti, uniformi, costumi nella società napoletana del secolo XVIII (searching for 2.2 Uniformi militari
    If someone could try to translate it in english...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Interesting extracts :
    • Fu con l’ascesa al trono di Carlo III che si ebbe un regno (di nuovo) autonomo. Egli fronteggiò la situazione politica appena descritta e, dovendo creare dal nuovo l’esercito del Regno di Napoli, ma non potendo contare su specifiche manifatture locali, fece comunque in modo che le uniformi dei suoi corpi militari non fossero da meno a quelle delle altre monarchie, e fossero ispirate rispettivamente a quelle dell’Austria per quanto riguardava la Fanteria, a quelle della Francia per l’Artiglieria e alla Prussia per la Cavalleria.
    • Uno di [one of the four watercolor kept in Brown University(Providence)] essi raffigura un Caporale di Artiglieria che indossa una giamberga blu, priva di colletto e con paramani rossi, un “ giamberghino “, cioè un panciotto, rosso, calzoni e calze bianchi, scarpe nere con la fibbia dello stesso metallo giallo dei bottoni e il suo copricapo è un tricorno nero, bordato di giallo con una coccarda rossa, colori della dinastia spagnola.
    • All’inizio del regno di Carlo III anche l’organizzazione e i regolamenti militari, come il resto dell’ordinamento statale, furono fortemente influenzati dalla Spagna.
    • Nel 1749 un’ordinanza, scritta in spagnolo, in quel periodo lingua ufficiale dell’esercito napoletano, prescrisse che il vestiario di un particolare Reggimento, Dragoni del Principe, dovesse essere giallo e nero e che i soldati ad esso appartenenti dovessero avere fucile e sciabola.
    • Il Museo di San Martino a Napoli conserva diversi acquarelli, risalenti agli anni ’50 del Settecento, che raffigurano le uniformi relative ai vari reparti e che testimoniano come i due battaglioni di ogni reggimento si differenziassero per alcuni dettagli.

      Le loro uniformi si distinguevano infatti per il diverso colore dei calzoni, il secondo battaglione li aveva dello stesso colore del panciotto, detto “giamberghino”, diminutivo di giamberga, abito che dalla vita in giù si allargava a gonna fino al ginocchio, il cui nome deriva probabilmente dal cognome di un maresciallo francese, Schomberg

      Le uniformi della Fanteria erano caratterizzate da giamberga, sottoveste con collaretto, paramani, gallone e bottoni e pantaloni, i cui colori variavano, a seconda dei Reggimenti, dal rosso, al blu, al bianco.
      Ad esempio, i soldati appartenenti al Reggimento “Re” indossavano giamberga e pantaloni rossi, sottoveste, collaretto e paramani blu, gallone e bottoni gialli.
      Quelli appartenenti al Reggimento “Fanteria Italiana” avevano invece giamberga e pantaloni bianchi, sottoveste, collaretto e paramani verdi, gallone e bottoni gialli.

      Tra le uniformi dei Reggimenti Provinciali vi erano poi colori particolari, ad esempio il Reggimento “Val di Mazzara” era caratterizzato sempre da giamberga e pantaloni rossi, ma sottoveste, collaretto e paramani erano color seppia e bottoni e gallone color oro.
      Nel Reggimento “Terra di Otranto” gallone e bottoni erano argentati, sottoveste, collaretto e paramani verdi e giamberga e pantaloni rossi.
      C’erano ancora “Terra di Lavoro”, in cui giamberga e pantaloni erano blu, sottoveste collaretto e paramani rossi e gallone e bottoni argentati, e “Calabria Ultra”, i cui soldati vestivano giamberga e pantaloni gialli, sottoveste, collaretto e paramani neri e gallone e bottoni color oro.


      Nella Cavalleria spiccavano le uniformi degli ufficiali: giamberghe viola con bordo rosso, sottoveste, paramani e collaretto variabili dal rosso, al blu, al verde a seconda dei reggimenti e bottoni e gallone argentati.

      I copricapi che caratterizzavano un po’ tutti i corpi erano i classici “tricorni”. Le scarpe erano di pelle, chiuse da grossa fibbia e indossate con calze lunghe color chiaro.
    • Qualche anno dopo, nel 1765, egli sciolse quei 12 Reggimenti Provinciali che erano stati istituiti da Carlo III, sostituì due nuovi reparti ai tre vecchi reggimenti di Sicilia e creò sei nuovi reggimenti, “Sannio”, “Real Campagna”, “Calabria”, “Puglia”, “Lucania”, “Messapia”, “Siracusa” e “Agrigento”.
    • Durante il Regno di Ferdinando IV furono apportate modifiche all’organizzazione delle forze armate, a partire dal 1765, anno in cui vi fu una riforma che alleggerì i pesanti ordinamenti spagnoli, le varie forze dell’Esercito furono sinteticamente ripartite in Guardia Reale e Fanteria di Linea.

      Le “Reali Guardie Italiane” indossavano giamberga e pantaloni blu e sottoveste, paramani e collaretto rossi, le “Reali Guardie Svizzere” viceversa, giamberga rossa e sottoveste blu.

      Il colore delle uniformi dei vari Reggimenti componenti la Fanteria di Linea variavano dal blu, al rosso, al bianco per quanto riguarda giamberga e pantaloni e dal verde, al rosso al blu per quanto riguarda sottoveste, paramani e collaretti.
    • 1776 to 1790's (?) :
      Essi hanno osservato che in una ventina d’anni i modelli delle uniformi si erano trasformati, ad esempio la giamberga della Fanteria era diventata più corta ed attillata, il colletto rovesciato era stato sostituito da un collettino dritto, il tricorno si era rimpicciolito, così pure il giamberghino e i paramani, l’astuccio che custodiva le cartucce, la giberna, venne appeso ad una bandoliera bianca e infine tutti i materiali in cuoio furono bianchi.
      I fucilieri non erano ormai più dotati di sciabola, ma di baionetta posta nell’apposito portabaionetta, alla sinistra del cinturone, mentre il giamberghino si arricchì di una chiusura in ottone modellata come le iniziali del reggimento.

      La giamberga degli appartenenti alla Cavalleria si caratterizzò per avere dei risvolti sul petto dello stesso colore del reggimento.

      I colori delle divise non variarono rispetto a quelli del 1755.Tra queste uniformi risalenti al 1776 ve ne erano alcune particolarissime, come quella dei Fucilieri di Montagna, di derivazione catalana, gialla, con ampio mantello verde e “ciocie”
    • Precisiamo che di nazionalità albanese erano i militanti nel reggimento “Real Macedone”, esistente fin dal novembre 1737, e che le loro divise si caratterizzavano per il “kolbak”, cappello che sostituiva il consueto tricorno, di pelo a staio rovesciato, con sciarpa rossa terminante a fiocchetto uscente dalla cima e pendente sul lato destro del copricapo stesso.
      Il popolo napoletano diede a questi soldati il soprannome di “camiciotti” per il loro lungo corpetto, il “giustacuore”


    An interesting blog about SYW Uniforms : Not By Appointment
    Last edited by wangrin; May 15, 2010 at 05:01 AM.
    « He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. » Albert EINSTEIN

  8. #68
    TheGeat's Avatar Supai
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Hey! I was thinking, meaby it would be a good idea to enable recruitment of better units like grenadiers, cannons, cavalry and guards in early barracks and for all italian states, perticulary for those factions with 2-slot cities. I'm affraid these units will barely see daylight in a campaign unless the player go for an italian faction and conquer multislot cities and builds schools.

    I think this is a big problem in Etw as minors should be able to recruite good units just as majors but the ultimate solution would probably be to create a recruitment mod for all minors (or atleast those with significant importance), i'm not sure if annyones up for that task though.

    Just a thought. Cheers!
    Last edited by TheGeat; May 15, 2010 at 08:15 AM.

  9. #69
    ♔hammeredalways♔'s Avatar Darthmod Moderator
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Hi TheGeat - Pom solved that issue with his German states MOD, I assume he will employ something similar here
    Knight of the binge-drinking-Kebab-shop-vomiting-taxi rank-punch-up? 32nd degree

  10. #70
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    Thanks
    Here, a better work than mine.

    An interesting document about sicilian military uniforms : Abiti, uniformi, costumi nella società napoletana del secolo XVIII (searching for 2.2 Uniformi militari
    If someone could try to translate it in english...



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Interesting extracts :
    • 1776 to 1790's (?) :


    An interesting blog about SYW Uniforms : Not By Appointment
    No, I prefer your version, and thanks for the link to the SYW blog, that was really interesting, will try to investigate some more of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeat View Post
    Hey! I was thinking, meaby it would be a good idea to enable recruitment of better units like grenadiers, cannons, cavalry and guards in early barracks and for all italian states, perticulary for those factions with 2-slot cities. I'm affraid these units will barely see daylight in a campaign unless the player go for an italian faction and conquer multislot cities and builds schools.

    I think this is a big problem in Etw as minors should be able to recruite good units just as majors but the ultimate solution would probably be to create a recruitment mod for all minors (or atleast those with significant importance), i'm not sure if annyones up for that task though.

    Just a thought. Cheers!
    Hi TheGeat, I hate the limits that placed on the recruitment in certain provinces. With my normal mod I make it for people who like to play as the minors, so I don't touch the recruitment parameters, I like the fact that you have to expand to get the better units, I think it makes for a more interesting game.

    What I will be doing is an AOR version that will allow most of the major factions, player and AI, to recruit any of the units that were available to the minor faction, then I will adjust the recruitment of the units so they they are tied to research rather than buildings.

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔hammeredalways♔ View Post
    Hi TheGeat - Pom solved that issue with his German states MOD, I assume he will employ something similar here
    Yes indeed, see above, and hi

    Hope to have a new release by Monday, just got the officers to do, and then we are away

  11. #71
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Just for fun : they are not "Italian States" units as they are French, but they come from Corsica.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1772. Infanterie - Rgt provinciaux, Rgt français, Rgt Corse.jpg 
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Name:	1772. Troupes Légères - Légion Corse, Légion de Conflans.jpg 
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Name:	1786. Infanterie Française - Rgt Provincial Corse.jpg 
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ID:	89699  
    « He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. » Albert EINSTEIN

  12. #72
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    Just for fun : they are not "Italian States" units as they are French, but they come from Corsica.
    I like the provincials with the soft hats, and the hussar, DaNova has done a version in his French mod, and done it very well

  13. #73
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Yes, DaNova units are very greats and Hussars de Bercheny is one of the best !
    But, if the infantryman on the picture come from a Corsican unit, the Hussars (or maybe a Chasseur à Cheval) come from a French unit, the "Legion de Conflans".
    I've done some work about French units, from early XVIIIth century to the 1st Republic (at least until 1799 and the end of The Directory).
    But, it's another story... and need more work (roster is nearly completed, but I need to arrange all the pictures and documents I've found).
    « He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. » Albert EINSTEIN

  14. #74
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    Yes, DaNova units are very greats and Hussars de Bercheny is one of the best !
    But, if the infantryman on the picture come from a Corsican unit, the Hussars (or maybe a Chasseur à Cheval) come from a French unit, the "Legion de Conflans".
    I've done some work about French units, from early XVIIIth century to the 1st Republic (at least until 1799 and the end of The Directory).
    But, it's another story... and need more work (roster is nearly completed, but I need to arrange all the pictures and documents I've found).
    I'll look forward to having a copy of that when ready, if thats OK, havn't looked into the French much.

  15. #75
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod

    Ok boys and girls, next instalment of my Italian States Mod.
    Have done some units for Savoy, screens below,
    DOWNLOAD LINK ON FRONT PAGE.

    Huge thanks to wangrin and RexImperator, who between them have ensured some degree of accuracy to the units, and supplied a wealth of info, that I'm still trying to catch up on.
    I have moved about a little over the years with Savoy, this was done to try and get an interesting roster, but not so much that any of the units look out of place, and all are near enough mid century.
    Obviously not complete, will release further updates soon.
    Hope you enjoy

    Guard......Swiss Line.......Swiss Grenadiers(both elite)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Line......Grenadiers......Militia
    Click image for larger version. 

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Name:	savmilitia.jpg 
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ID:	89843

  16. #76
    ♔hammeredalways♔'s Avatar Darthmod Moderator
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod, Genoa, Savoy.

    excellent work old chap - downloading now, Hip will be pleased
    Knight of the binge-drinking-Kebab-shop-vomiting-taxi rank-punch-up? 32nd degree

  17. #77
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod, Genoa, Savoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔hammeredalways♔ View Post
    excellent work old chap - downloading now, Hip will be pleased
    The man has a HUGE appetite, I also thought I was the only one up this time of the morning, well off to bed now

  18. #78
    Ceasar Gubius's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod, Genoa, Savoy.

    I love the Savoy units Pom! But is there any calvary or artilery ??? Terrific work though !
    RTR RULES!!!!

  19. #79
    ♔Pom♔'s Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod, Genoa, Savoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceasar Gubius View Post
    I love the Savoy units Pom! But is there any calvary or artilery ??? Terrific work though !
    Yep, working on the artillery at the moment, and will add some cavalry on the next release, and thank you.

  20. #80
    RexImperator's Avatar Shisai
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    Default Re: Italian States Mod, Genoa, Savoy.

    Beautiful stuff as always Pom, I'd rep you again for Savoy release but I can't yet.

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