How good is the BAI actually?

**antisocialmunky** · April 26, 2010, 09:59 PM

Most of the reviews on this board seem to be about CAI but I'm curious about the BAI? Can it do sieges effectively? Will it actually maintain formation and is it capable of fighting the player well? I have had good experience with Sieges in Stainless Steel so I'm more curious on the latter.

PS. I didn't mean offense on the EBII board but it is a little odd that pretty much no one but the devs jumped in to defend this mod.

**soulson** · April 26, 2010, 10:14 PM

I play SS as well and I cant tell you from experience that XBAI sends their archers very far in front of the formation (much farther than stock bai). I am assuming xeryx will release a BAI balance guideline of some sort.

**Costin_Razvan** · April 27, 2010, 02:17 AM

XBAI will flank your ass at every turn.

**antisocialmunky** · April 27, 2010, 08:17 AM

Flanking isn't a metric of good, its just an additional (nice) feature to have. I browse though like 10 threads and they all say the AI flanks but is it any good is my question? How would you review the BAI? I don't have space for MedII currently so I can't throw it in.

**Achilla** · April 27, 2010, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Flanking a metric of good, its just an additional (nice) feature to have. I browse though like 10 threads and they all say the AI flanks but is it any good is my question? I don't have space for MedII currently so I can't throw it in.

No offense mate, but like with any AI you are best off freeing up some HDD space and checking it out for yourself. At least it eliminates the possible bias of the reviewers.

@ soulson

There really isn't need for that. We don't work in the 'abstract', with rangers having 3-kilometre range with their bows or cavalry walking on the walls. Modders are free to consult us and mod the BAI for their own purpose in more extreme cases of XAI integration, in the case troops in their mod are so vastly different from what we are served in the original game. We give advices on how to create unit rosters for optimal performance, however we aren't going to dictate anybody how he will design his mod. Lastly, just changing few numbers in the BAI is likely to cause weird side effects, simply for the sake that it wasn't tested by us, thoroughly. I can't see ourselves in any time working on a 'special' version of AI for fantasy/vastly different mods, because we are pretty busy with what we are doing already. Unless we involve ourselves in official integration in such mods, I can't really see any research popping up the surface.

**xeryx** · April 27, 2010, 09:22 AM

OK guys let me explain the design philosophy on the concepts.

1) Archers: Are considered skirmishers. Skirmishers will go as far up front as they need to, to accommodate the missile ranges provided by "THE MOD" That is their job. There are a few things I can do to reign them in a bit. Remember this, the Skirmish rules in 1.5 are hard coded. We cannot control them that much.

2) Flanking is WAY more than a feature friend, it is a fundamental tactic! It will surely drive you nuts protecting against it. There are two things that happen with a flank. 1) you have to commit troops that would otherwise be used to reinforce your front lines. 2) There is a morale penalty to the armies when your flanks are broken.

3) The things XBAI does very well is this: it is proactive, and looking to penetrate your lines, it will go around if needed. It is very good at breaking a unit, with multiple units. It is also very fast at countering your tactics in the front line. It also obtains one for one kills. It also uses reinforcements properly.

4) It is not perfect, nor should it be expected, to be. It takes a ton of time to balance this many facets, and feedback is needed in order to do so. We only have so much time with our real lifes to work on XAI.

5) Sieges are completely reworked, and if you can read of the 4.0 thread the first post you will see some of the features. We do not really use the plaza, other than as a resting point. We have changed the focus of battle to the walls and the streets, not the plaza. It is to the last man, and there is no timer.

6) Sieges, are reworked a lot, and there are still some areas I would like to do some work on, like specific unit assignments. Reinforcement will actually use siege equipment now with the AI assisted control. Ai falls back properly to the tiered walls in castles. Bring your ram.

7) We are open to constructive criticism, however we do not tolerate TROLLING. Read the forums, and install the BAI, then give your feedback.

8) Don't count on the BAI guidelines anytime soon, I am way to busy to explain BAI, That would be a very dedicated project. However, I am sure that people will always find something wrong with something anyway. However, I am surprised soulson didn't say anything else, but that one negative thing about XAI in SS. I know it does other things...LOL

9) I guess you will have to wait and see on the review. Video is always a good thing too, but we are not a PR machine. However it looks like some fans, are stepping up!

XAI stands on it's own and has it's own fan base, and we all enjoy playing our campaigns and battles. We do not have to defend it, it defends itself just fine!

Also most people that play the mod don't go to the other .org forum (we hardly ever do). We are not mainstream, and do not target the most popular mod and latch on to it to become popular ourselves. We are here for this, to fix as many issues with the game as we possibly can, so we all can enjoy Med2 and get our monies worth out of the game. Any mod that wants to use XAI is free to do so, with permission of course. I only have one stipulation, and that is for us to make sure everything is balanced correctly, and running right before release of an official integration. Every mod has been different, you would think they should all be the same, but there are many variables to consider when optimizing any mod.

**dknight237** · April 27, 2010, 11:33 AM

Try playing without pausing then you will realize just how hard it can be

**Costin_Razvan** · April 27, 2010, 11:56 AM

We do not have to defend it, it defends itself just fine!

Quite literally, if you know what I mean

I actually did two videos, showcasing XAI 4.0, but bloody youtube won't upload them...sigh.

**xeryx** · April 27, 2010, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Costin_Razvan

Quite literally, if you know what I mean

I actually did two videos, showcasing XAI 4.0, but bloody youtube won't upload them...sigh.

No way!! what is the issue? Maybe you can contact Mad Mardigan, he will also be working on some.. Maybe you can work together!

That is so very nice!! Thank you!!

**Costin_Razvan** · April 27, 2010, 01:27 PM

Sigh...the issue is I recorded the thing. Then well...after rendering in VirtualDub AND THEN Uploading the whole thing to youtube ( which took 2 hours mind you ) it said upload failed.

I think it has to do with the sound codec. Will see what I can do. ( After my rage subsides a bit )

**xeryx** · April 27, 2010, 04:08 PM

Sometimes it is better to just walk away and cool down, for a bit. Then try again later.

**Costin_Razvan** · April 27, 2010, 05:26 PM

I know that quite well....if only I actually did it.

**xeryx** · April 27, 2010, 05:31 PM

Oh I know that quite well Too!

**antisocialmunky** · April 27, 2010, 11:22 PM

Well like I said I am not trying to troll you. Given the general disappointment I've run into with claims of an overall better BAI in other mods I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what are the actual aspects you went for so you can judge it on the strong points. Its just hard to find a list of points like you just posted so thanks, that answers my question. It really gets frustrating to dig for answers.

Everytime someone brings up XAI, no one can give and explanation of what has changed except that 'it is good' or 'I heard it was good.' I understand you are busy but maybe you guys would get more widespread praise if you did document all your changes so your not just that 'good AI' that everyone has heard about but almost no one has played.

Good luck on the modding front

**xeryx** · April 28, 2010, 10:34 AM

LOL well the only way to know if "YOU" will like it, is to play it, it is that simple.

If only they took the time to read the forums?

**antisocialmunky** · April 28, 2010, 06:47 PM

A big feature list would be nice. If I try it out for 10 games and the AI is only slightly tweaked then I won't like it nor will I read much of the forums. But if I knew I missed a few cases that might change something.

For example in like my 20th battle in TATW, I ran into a scene where the AI took out my reinforcements which was half my force and then charged into my remaining men and surrounded them because I was rather badly outnumbered. It was actually quite intelligent of the AI. On the other hand the majority of my battles a semi-line of units running at mine and then turning into a giant ball of arrow riddled fail or hilariously pathetic castle battles.

EDIT

That or a comparison video. I see wut you did thar.