Region based Recruitment

[DeliCiousTZM]

I like region based recruitment i think that is what mainly makes this Mod great region based recruitment. I have however noticed that all region based recruitment are merceneries? Have i understood this wrong? and if this is the case i would Like Irish Kerns Galloich Saxon huscarls and alot more merceneries to be region based recruitable aswel.

[smitty]

No, plenty of units are regional levies and not mercenaries. In Hungary you'll find Croatian axemen and Bosnian archers, England has the regular Longbowmen, Lithuania (and surrounding areas) have Lithuanian archers, Prussia has Prussian axemen...

The list goes on. There are plenty of units recruitable from buildings that are regional-specific and non-mercenary classification.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Actually smitty their all counted as merceneries aswell go to custom battle and you will see that u can find all of thoose units under the regular Faction units.

[smitty]

Actually smitty their all counted as merceneries aswell go to custom battle and you will see that u can find all of thoose units under the regular Faction units.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but PB uses a classification system of units based on their level of professionality, their cost, training, etc. that gets units classified as feudal elite/superior/low etc. qualities, or professional militias from cities and so forth. Mercenaries is one of these distinct classes, and the units I just listed, and that you referred to, are not classified as mercenaries. The custom battle menu has nothing to do with unit classification, only campaign interfaces.

I have however noticed that all region based recruitment are merceneries? Have i understood this wrong? and if this is the case i would Like Irish Kerns Galloich Saxon huscarls and alot more merceneries to be region based recruitable aswel.

If you open up the mercenary recruitment screen, yes, every unit in there will be a mercenary unit. Regional recruitment affects both available mercenaries and regional levies. You are referring to Galloglaich, Irish Kerns, etc. right now, those are only recruitable through the mercenary recruitment screen and hence are mercenaries. Scottish Pikemen, recruitable from similar areas, are not mercenaries and come from cities/castles. So, there are plenty of regional units that are not mercenaries. Do not dispute this, I am correct.

[Awellesley]

This really does not address your key point, but the reason why Saxon Huscarls are not mercenaries in the British Isles are that by 1080 (or 1100, whenever you start) the old Saxon Huscarls had left the region to either join the Varangian Guard or to rejoin family in Norway/Denmark. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to place them in that area.

[DeliCiousTZM]

You guys are missing the point completely, I wonder why for example When u get Genoa you dont get Genoan Crossbowmen? When u take Zaragoza u get Knights of montesa ? or scillio norman Knights from Palermo edessan guard in edessa? I wonder if its even possible to implement all theese units and many more, Perhaps only Merceneries can be recruited regional based? or is it possible to Actually make Genoan Crossbowmen etc recruitable in the targeted cities?

[smitty]

You guys are missing the point completely, I wonder why for example When u get Genoa you dont get Genoan Crossbowmen? When u take Zaragoza u get Knights of montesa ? or scillio norman Knights from Palermo edessan guard in edessa? I wonder if its even possible to implement all theese units and many more, Perhaps only Merceneries can be recruited regional based? or is it possible to Actually make Genoan Crossbowmen etc recruitable in the targeted cities?

Your initial question reflected nothing that suggested this is what you wanted to know.

My guess is that PB wanted to keep some sort of factional diversity so that not all of these units could be recruited by any faction. Yes, clearly it is possible, as PB has already done it with the examples I mentioned above. A lot of the units you just named were specifically associated with the ruler of that region though, and weren't for hire by anybody. For example, the knights of Montesa were specifically instituted by the King of Aragon. Were he to be supplanted by another kingdom, it would not be fitting for them to serve that new ruler. Edessan guards were specifically Christian, it would not be fitting for a new Turkish ruler to hire them, as they would have disbanded upon the Crusader States being overrun. I believe it is this relationship between crown and warrior that PB is preserving.

If you're looking for the specific textual edits you need to make in units_descr_strat etc, you should ask that question.

[Point Blank]

Yes that is pretty much it.

[Gorrrrrn]

Even Genoese crossbowmen didn't necessarily come from Genoa but from Corsica, Liguria etc.

see interesting article on mercenaries here:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/~dxl31/r...mercenary.html

Most of the Genoese crossbowmen were drawn from Genoa's possessions: the Ligurian hills, Corsica, and Sardinia

There is also a mercenary Scottish pike unit (or there was.)

Question of which units should be generic mercenary, local mercenary and which faction specific is highly debatable.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Allow me to rephrase, is it Possible to have every factions units regional based recruitable with the original factions units recruitable all over the map?

[DeliCiousTZM]

Allow me to rephrase, is it Possible to have every factions units regional based recruitable with the original factions units recruitable all over the map?

i wanted to know if it could be done first before and what the restrictions were. Valid points beat slander if you disagree state why and in what way you belive me to be wrong iam very reasonable. but make sure you understand what i mean iam not crude nor do i think that all units should be regional based for all factions to recruit. Rather that this should be expanded and improved upon example.

France captures Nottingham and gets longbowmen ? wait this is already how it is but why not Irish kerns from Galaway and galliochs aswell. Swordstaff miltia from Arhus? Swabian swordsmen from Staufen. Swiss pikemen from Bern(I have yet to see them recruitable France turn 196 Late era).

And belive me when i say PB has done great work already with this AOR concept and i praise him for it, in the future i hope that he will continue on this as it gives me and my friends such joy from this mod. And please, post your own examples of AOR units that could be implemented There is no hurt in tossing around ideas even if they will never be implemented.

[Point Blank]

Huge amount of work.

[DeliCiousTZM]

How is it pointless ? it would add alot more depth and you would be able to forge real empires PB has already implemented some of it. Feels more like ure trying to kiss PB ass besides im not saying RR/RC is bad cuz its not but why not improve? instead of making it all at once maybe this could be done in waves if to be done at all.

[smitty]

it would add alot more depth and you would be able to forge real empires PB has already implemented some of it..

Yes, and PB's response appears as though he won't be undertaking the project, so you ought to investigate the mod thread forums how to do so if you truly desire to make this. Also, it adding more depth is just as debatable an issue as it removing depth. Allowing every unit recruitable by every faction based on region personally seems rather out-of-depth and would make every faction a meaningless clone of the next one.

I think you've generated enough responses to see this undertaking will need to be yours, or sought elsewhere, if you want to see it fulfilled.

[Rolling Thunder]

How is it pointless ?

In the words of Adam Smith "It is an enterprise where the cost of production outweighs the revenue gained from it's sale".

The current system is pretty good. As-is, what units do you feel need to be locally recruitable that aren't? Please bear in mind that a faction's specialised troops are not going to simply switch sides just because you take their home region.

[DeliCiousTZM]

In the words of Adam Smith "It is an enterprise where the cost of production outweighs the revenue gained from it's sale".

The current system is pretty good. As-is, what units do you feel need to be locally recruitable that aren't? Please bear in mind that a faction's specialised troops are not going to simply switch sides just because you take their home region.

i gave some examples but i can give some more Retinue longbows would be nice to have later on Noble pikemen. Kwarzemian Nobles turkish horse archer heavy horse archer ? Varangian guards, thats just a few. you think England always had an Inborne English king? or HRE always had a "German" keyzer?

"a faction's specialised troops are not going to simply switch sides just because you take their home region"
thats exacly what they will why woulnd't they? Diffrent king same rules, Besides there are even examples of Christians and muslims following leaders of the opposite religions most of the times for considerable payment but it happened nontheless so lets not scream impossible to the possible.

btw i fail to see the relevance from your adam smith qoute and FYI adam smith ended up rejecting hes own work once he got a taste of how the system realy opperated.

[Kaledon]

The AoR system is not intended to make all units recruitable by all factions. It is designed around allowing primarily LOCAL troops to be recruitable. In the case of Kwarezmian Nobles, or other Feudal units. If you're tearing down their nobility to make room for your own, chances are you won't have many of them fighting for you. Although a case might be made for certain professional troops the simple fact of the matter is that most empires would not revise their military based around the military of a defeated faction. So, professional units seem rather unlikely as well. Not necessarily impossible, but just because something is possible does not mean that it is likely. I suppose militia could be used as AoR, but who cares all that much about being able to recruit every faction's militias as AoR? Heh.

Also, The-Monetary. You accuse people of picking a fight, but so far you appear to be the one being rude. Perhaps english is not your first language, or perhaps you are young... But either way, you have not left a good impression. You have come off as demanding and aggressive.

[Rolling Thunder]

i gave some examples but i can give some more Retinue longbows would be nice to have later on Noble pikemen. Kwarzemian Nobles turkish horse archer heavy horse archer ? Varangian guards, thats just a few. you think England always had an Inborne English king? or HRE always had a "German" keyzer?

The Varangians were disbanded in 1204, you can recruit Khwarzemian mercenaries and Turkish horse archers, Noble pikemen are an odd and strange unit to begin with and...

"a faction's specialised troops are not going to simply switch sides just because you take their home region"
thats exacly what they will why woulnd't they? Diffrent king same rules, Besides there are even examples of Christians and muslims following leaders of the opposite religions most of the times for considerable payment but it happened nontheless so lets not scream impossible to the possible.

No, they wouldn't. If you destroy a kingdom, you also destroy most of the existing social structure and replace it with your own. Just because you invade France does not mean your nation has the resources or the men to recruit Gendarmes or Lancers, and the idea of getting retinue Longbows for conquering England is laughable. Longbowmen take decades to train, and were a result of a curiously English set of social customs and norms. Replace that with the Mongol Khanate and you're not getting longbowmen.

btw i fail to see the relevance from your adam smith qoute and FYI adam smith ended up rejecting hes own work once he got a taste of how the system realy opperated.

1. Prove it.
2. The point is IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
3. If you want it so badly, do it yourself. Put the units into the descr_mercenaries text folder, assign them to their specific regions and voila.

[Rolling Thunder]

Kind of pointless to, given how well the system works as-is.

[k/t]

Why should Egyptians be able to recruit Templar units? That doesn't make sense. Why would Sicily recruit Mamluks when they have Norman Knights? Doing what you want wouldn't improve the system, it would make it stupid. You can already forge "real" empires.