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Thread: Region based Recruitment

  1. #1
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Region based Recruitment

    I like region based recruitment i think that is what mainly makes this Mod great region based recruitment. I have however noticed that all region based recruitment are merceneries? Have i understood this wrong? and if this is the case i would Like Irish Kerns Galloich Saxon huscarls and alot more merceneries to be region based recruitable aswel.

  2. #2
    smitty's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    No, plenty of units are regional levies and not mercenaries. In Hungary you'll find Croatian axemen and Bosnian archers, England has the regular Longbowmen, Lithuania (and surrounding areas) have Lithuanian archers, Prussia has Prussian axemen...

    The list goes on. There are plenty of units recruitable from buildings that are regional-specific and non-mercenary classification.
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  3. #3
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Actually smitty their all counted as merceneries aswell go to custom battle and you will see that u can find all of thoose units under the regular Faction units.

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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    This really does not address your key point, but the reason why Saxon Huscarls are not mercenaries in the British Isles are that by 1080 (or 1100, whenever you start) the old Saxon Huscarls had left the region to either join the Varangian Guard or to rejoin family in Norway/Denmark. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to place them in that area.

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    smitty's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    Actually smitty their all counted as merceneries aswell go to custom battle and you will see that u can find all of thoose units under the regular Faction units.
    I'm not sure what you mean by that, but PB uses a classification system of units based on their level of professionality, their cost, training, etc. that gets units classified as feudal elite/superior/low etc. qualities, or professional militias from cities and so forth. Mercenaries is one of these distinct classes, and the units I just listed, and that you referred to, are not classified as mercenaries. The custom battle menu has nothing to do with unit classification, only campaign interfaces.

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    I have however noticed that all region based recruitment are merceneries? Have i understood this wrong? and if this is the case i would Like Irish Kerns Galloich Saxon huscarls and alot more merceneries to be region based recruitable aswel.
    If you open up the mercenary recruitment screen, yes, every unit in there will be a mercenary unit. Regional recruitment affects both available mercenaries and regional levies. You are referring to Galloglaich, Irish Kerns, etc. right now, those are only recruitable through the mercenary recruitment screen and hence are mercenaries. Scottish Pikemen, recruitable from similar areas, are not mercenaries and come from cities/castles. So, there are plenty of regional units that are not mercenaries. Do not dispute this, I am correct.
    Last edited by smitty; April 26, 2010 at 08:06 PM.
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  6. #6
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    You guys are missing the point completely, I wonder why for example When u get Genoa you dont get Genoan Crossbowmen? When u take Zaragoza u get Knights of montesa ? or scillio norman Knights from Palermo edessan guard in edessa? I wonder if its even possible to implement all theese units and many more, Perhaps only Merceneries can be recruited regional based? or is it possible to Actually make Genoan Crossbowmen etc recruitable in the targeted cities?

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    smitty's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    You guys are missing the point completely, I wonder why for example When u get Genoa you dont get Genoan Crossbowmen? When u take Zaragoza u get Knights of montesa ? or scillio norman Knights from Palermo edessan guard in edessa? I wonder if its even possible to implement all theese units and many more, Perhaps only Merceneries can be recruited regional based? or is it possible to Actually make Genoan Crossbowmen etc recruitable in the targeted cities?
    Your initial question reflected nothing that suggested this is what you wanted to know.

    My guess is that PB wanted to keep some sort of factional diversity so that not all of these units could be recruited by any faction. Yes, clearly it is possible, as PB has already done it with the examples I mentioned above. A lot of the units you just named were specifically associated with the ruler of that region though, and weren't for hire by anybody. For example, the knights of Montesa were specifically instituted by the King of Aragon. Were he to be supplanted by another kingdom, it would not be fitting for them to serve that new ruler. Edessan guards were specifically Christian, it would not be fitting for a new Turkish ruler to hire them, as they would have disbanded upon the Crusader States being overrun. I believe it is this relationship between crown and warrior that PB is preserving.

    If you're looking for the specific textual edits you need to make in units_descr_strat etc, you should ask that question.
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    Point Blank's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Yes that is pretty much it.

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    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Even Genoese crossbowmen didn't necessarily come from Genoa but from Corsica, Liguria etc.

    see interesting article on mercenaries here:
    http://www.personal.psu.edu/~dxl31/r...mercenary.html

    Most of the Genoese crossbowmen were drawn from Genoa's possessions: the Ligurian hills, Corsica, and Sardinia
    There is also a mercenary Scottish pike unit (or there was.)

    Question of which units should be generic mercenary, local mercenary and which faction specific is highly debatable.

  10. #10
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Allow me to rephrase, is it Possible to have every factions units regional based recruitable with the original factions units recruitable all over the map?

  11. #11
    Point Blank's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Huge amount of work.

  12. #12
    Rolling Thunder's Avatar Jukutatsu shita
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Kind of pointless to, given how well the system works as-is.
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  13. #13
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    How is it pointless ? it would add alot more depth and you would be able to forge real empires PB has already implemented some of it. Feels more like ure trying to kiss PB ass besides im not saying RR/RC is bad cuz its not but why not improve? instead of making it all at once maybe this could be done in waves if to be done at all.

  14. #14
    k/t's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Why should Egyptians be able to recruit Templar units? That doesn't make sense. Why would Sicily recruit Mamluks when they have Norman Knights? Doing what you want wouldn't improve the system, it would make it stupid. You can already forge "real" empires.

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    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    If your not fond of the AOR concept which RR/RC utilizes alot go play something else, or better yet comment somewhere else and i can recruit Bendouin Desert archer and cavalry already tons of muslim units so whats the big deal here realy?feels like everyone is more intressted in picking a fight then discusing ideas
    Last edited by DeliCiousTZM; April 27, 2010 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #16
    k/t's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    If your not fond of the AOR concept
    This is based on...?

    You say that the only reason why people disagree with you is that they're kissing ass and then you accuse them of picking fights?

    Your idea is just bad, and that's it.

  17. #17
    Vernah's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    It depends on the troop type really, and it would take alot of work. It's just PB on this mod I believe and people making submods to throw into the pot of awesomeness. Egyptians with templars for example would be LOLZOMG not awesome. If you want more AOR recruiting thats realistic, compile a list of all the units for every region and then state which units should be recruitable in which area and then post it on here and if it look's zm0g awesome then I'm sure someone will take the effort to do it.

    Also, I'm not sure what is gained by kissing PB's ass, unless it's for a council seat in the Empire of Atlantis, or a trip to Jamaica or pleasures you cannot imagine, but I'm pretty sure people just don't like the idea of Imperial Gothic knights being recruitable by the Turks. Thus, I pray to the all-mighty god of Bacon that your soul won't be condemned to the hell's of celleri and egg plant for insulting the powers of this forum.

  18. #18
    Erunion Telcontar's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    If your not fond of the AOR concept which RR/RC utilizes alot go play something else, or better yet comment somewhere else and i can recruit Bendouin Desert archer and cavalry already tons of muslim units so whats the big deal here realy?feels like everyone is more intressted in picking a fight then discusing ideas
    I do like the concept of limited region based recruitment, which is implemented. Units like the Bedouins who were not specifically Muslim or Christian, (Bedouins are nomadic tribes, some christian, some Muslim, some may even have been pagan!) or in any way partisan, should be recruited by everyone as they represent the locals who have a specific way of life, no matter who is in charge. However, units who were partisan, such as mamluks, most knights, "kings men" style units, should not be recruitable by everyone as they are specific to certain governments.

    To be honest, the more of these non-partisan locals the better, as they really add to the flavour of your armies, but I do not want to see Russians running about with Retinue Longbowmen.

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  19. #19
    smitty's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    it would add alot more depth and you would be able to forge real empires PB has already implemented some of it..
    Yes, and PB's response appears as though he won't be undertaking the project, so you ought to investigate the mod thread forums how to do so if you truly desire to make this. Also, it adding more depth is just as debatable an issue as it removing depth. Allowing every unit recruitable by every faction based on region personally seems rather out-of-depth and would make every faction a meaningless clone of the next one.

    I think you've generated enough responses to see this undertaking will need to be yours, or sought elsewhere, if you want to see it fulfilled.
    Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.

  20. #20
    DeliCiousTZM's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Region based Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Monetary View Post
    Allow me to rephrase, is it Possible to have every factions units regional based recruitable with the original factions units recruitable all over the map?
    i wanted to know if it could be done first before and what the restrictions were. Valid points beat slander if you disagree state why and in what way you belive me to be wrong iam very reasonable. but make sure you understand what i mean iam not crude nor do i think that all units should be regional based for all factions to recruit. Rather that this should be expanded and improved upon example.

    France captures Nottingham and gets longbowmen ? wait this is already how it is but why not Irish kerns from Galaway and galliochs aswell. Swordstaff miltia from Arhus? Swabian swordsmen from Staufen. Swiss pikemen from Bern(I have yet to see them recruitable France turn 196 Late era).

    And belive me when i say PB has done great work already with this AOR concept and i praise him for it, in the future i hope that he will continue on this as it gives me and my friends such joy from this mod. And please, post your own examples of AOR units that could be implemented There is no hurt in tossing around ideas even if they will never be implemented.

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