Ottomans unbeatable?

[Cyprexinia]

I'm playing SS 6.2 with RR/RC on VH/VH in 1450 era as Venice, anyone have a clue as how to even defend against the Ottomans? Their Janassary troops even their archers destroy any units I throw at them. Since you only get a fortress and they have a few Citadels in the area it's prolly much harder but even Ventian heavy infantry get destroyed. I had 20 heavy janassary troops defeat 90 spear seargents and 50 heavy venetian troops, even footman at arms are useless against them. Anyone have any tips it's frustrating!

[JorisofHolland]

Gunpoweder seems to work fine, in most cases. Light cavalry (especially the Albanians) to run down archers, hand held guns to deal tons of damage to their Janissaries and some heavy infantry (Venetian ') can finish them off after that, most of time.

[Cyprexinia]

Most of the time it's during sieges, I'll try to keep handgunners on the bottom to shoot up at their infantry. I simply cannot stop them in a seige fight tho even with more troops, their troops just demolish mine tho not sure how it works using a halberd against a guy who is point blank in your face with a hammer >.>

[Cyprexinia]

Don't think this siege defense is winnable. Handgunners won't shot upwards and my guys keep surrounding their troops getting hit in the process -.- I don't think I can beat a unit with 13 attack 15 defense and is effective against armor, my heavy infantry only does 3 atk. The handgunners do ok but theyre a bit clunky, best result I had was I killed 1000 of their troops yet they dropped 2500 of mine.

[Kawee]

I find that during sieges, my most effective killing unit is the good old xbowmen. Decent attack, with AP attribute. But it's still not very reliable since the Ottoman army, in late game, is extremely good all-round.

[algorath]

Hardest possible experience in rr/rc is the 1450 campaign as basileia ton romaion, which i played for some ~50 turns last winter...*searching*
Here ya go http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...26#post6155126 and following posts

Now thats challenging, and big fun

[Cyprexinia]

yea theyre attacking with 8 stacks of heavy infantry, 4 stacks of archers 1 bodyguard 2 sipha lancers 3 fari calvery and 1-2 halberd miltia all gold armored with atleast 1 gold chevron. Thier archers are killing my heavy infantry with daggers.. how do dagger wielding archers have 7 atk? >.>

[Cyprexinia]

Next time I try to win will take a screenshot of what they have, it's brutal.

[algorath]

If they´re too strong, you´re too weak

[Kaledon]

Actually, I'm playing a 1450 Venice campaign currently. Not exactly the same though, as it's RR/RC with BGRIV-E on VH/VH. Anyway, with Handgunners, you have to make sure you have a free shot at them. One example of a tactic to use is when they arrive in a siege tower, have meleeists only on one side. The handgunners should be on the other side of the enemy, shooting at them. Should molest them. Also, you're venice. You have easy access to swiss mercenaries. Those boys'll show the Janissaries what for. Also, Pavise Crossbowmen are always excellent. Always. ^_^.

All in all I didn't have many problems with the Ottomans. Janissaries just aren't tough enough to stand up to massive crossbow and handgun fire, with the occasional ribault. As well, a rear cavalry charge helps a lot on the field of course. In the end I shattered the armies they sent towards me until they eventually asked for a ceasefire, at which point I allied with them. Sicily actually gave me a bit more trouble just because of the sheer amount of heavy cavalry they were bringing. They're ruined now, of course.

[algorath]

Kaledon, do u have some screens of your campaign?

[Kaledon]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As you can see, I'm not expanding all that quickly. I've been playing slow and steady, building up my power base in Italy. My battles with the Ottomans and Sicilians have helped with training my generals, as has killing rebels. I went on a crusade against the Fatimid and took Alexandria and Jerusalem, which I gave back to them in exchange for a ceasefire, trade rights, and some cold hard cash for a few turns. I've been assisting the Romans occasionally, although they haven't had that much trouble. The Ottomans really had a stick up their bum about me for a while. As well, they were being pressed by the Hungarians.

Early on I messed up a few armies of the moors that landed on Italy, as well as a jihading army on the way to Medina. I ceasefired and allied with with them when they sent a diplomat to me begging for peace. Sicily only has one territory now. I'm considering taking it, but I might just vassal them eventually instead. They aren't worth much, but I don't really want to defend that island for now.

[Caesar Clivus]

Moved to the RR/RC forum. Please post all questions about RR/RC there

[Rolling Thunder]

3 words. Massed. Pike. Formations. Outnumber the janissaries with your pikemen, and then crush them by means of a solid wall of pikes.

[Kaledon]

I do that, using Swiss Pikemen and Halberdiers. In fact, I have one unit of Swiss Halberdiers that I plan to keep alive through retraining for the entire campaign if possible. I'm more attached to them than I am to my generals. I use Pike Militia and all, but they are just so low quality. It's too bad Venice can't recruit decent pikemen at the start. Fortunately, the Swiss exist.

[k/t]

I find that during sieges, my most effective killing unit is the good old xbowmen. Decent attack, with AP attribute. But it's still not very reliable since the Ottoman army, in late game, is extremely good all-round.

Crossbows don't have AP in RR/RC.

[griffin795]

I always beat ottmans in sally-out battles. First, I send one company of my pavise spearmen out the gate, line them in losse formation close as you can to the walls. The AI will send their horse archers near your gate and shoot at your pavisers. If they are short ranged HA, send your archers or Xbows to the walls to shoot back. If they have no short ranged HA and only long ranged HA, just let them shoot at the pavisers. Few will be killed at their farthest range. After they use up all of their arrows, they go back. Let you pavisers forward to the farthest range of Ottoman foot archers. They will fire at you, but kill few. When their foot archers use up their arrows, pull back you pavise spears, send one of your xbows or archers and all your horsemen out. Command your ranged attack ottomans, and the AI will send their horsemen out. Once their horsemen start moving forward, pull back your archers and command one of your horsemen charge the enemy horse front, and another one the wing. Also you can send your spears to help your horsemen if your horsemen are not enough. When kill all of their horsemen, send one xbows or archers again to shoot at the enemy. Then, they will send their footmen forward. Don't fight with them, just pull back, use your ranged units on the walls to kill them, and consume their stamina. When you kill some and fatigue their footmen, send all of your soldiers out, footmen at the front, gunpowders flank their wing, horsemen charge the rear. Down their general as soon as possible, then you will be victorious.

[Maltacus]

I'm playing SS 6.2 with RR/RC on VH/VH in 1450 era as Venice, anyone have a clue as how to even defend against the Ottomans?

Generally, it is most economical if you get to pick the battlefields yourself, and Venice should be able to do that. The narrow corridor leading into Northern Italy can be blocked easily, forcing the foe to fight when you have the high ground. Ragusa is a large castle where ottoman quality can be made to count for nothing. Meanwhle your own armies can attack on quite different locations.

The mountains in Greece and near ragusa (Croatia? Albania?) are good places to lure superior armies to. The hills will even out the odds against both janissaries and horse archers.

Ottomans also have a lot of coastal regions, although many of the settlements lie some distance from the shore. They are vulnerable to raids from the sea. Venice should be able to get some siege machinery fast, enabling you to take settlements in one turn. Then retreat and sell the settlement, or keep it as a distraction. A longer journey may take you to untouched regions with fresh mercenary pools as well.

[Rolling Thunder]

Pike militia will usually tie them up and cause enough fatalities to slow the Janissaries down until you can flank-crush them with cavalry.

[Chyeaaaa111]

If you think Venice is hard, you should try the Roman Empire on VH/VH 1450 campaign with BYG IV E.