Human Morale

[Morray]

Hiya folks,

been playing the mod now for a strong week so I think I've gained sufficient knowledge in that period to lay down my largest critisicm, don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the mod it's a great piece of work, but my main problem lies in morale, my guys never seem to run away... Is it just me or is morale set a little high? I had 3 units of empire swordsmen stand off against 7 units of Orc big uns and practically fight to the last man with my general dead, now it seems to me my guys probably should have run away after 1-2 mins of fighting, wheras they actually fought for a good 5 mins, was fun to watch them slowly lose but I think they need to be dropped slightly.

I love the mod guys keep up the fabulous work!

[Werebear]

Run for become 100% dead? they are not so idiots and have excellent motivation. They fight for home, relatives and their lives....

[drillmaster]

You can change it by yourself. Its very easy. I dissagree with many things in the mod and I've changed them because they are never going to be changed.

You only have to find and change some attributes here: export_descr_unit

[midterm360]

Hiya folks,

been playing the mod now for a strong week so I think I've gained sufficient knowledge in that period to lay down my largest critisicm, don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the mod it's a great piece of work, but my main problem lies in morale, my guys never seem to run away... Is it just me or is morale set a little high? I had 3 units of empire swordsmen stand off against 7 units of Orc big uns and practically fight to the last man with my general dead, now it seems to me my guys probably should have run away after 1-2 mins of fighting, wheras they actually fought for a good 5 mins, was fun to watch them slowly lose but I think they need to be dropped slightly.

I love the mod guys keep up the fabulous work!

Ah one fatal flaw in what you are saying is that if soldiers from OUR society had to fight a large orkish monster when a tide of green death came out of nowhere and besieged us they would probably run. But the average Joe from Warhammer is in a class all on his own compared to someone from our world and after having read even a small amount of lore you will be able to tell that Warhammer is in general a pretty grim universe and the men would have a much different outlook on life. For them this would be pretty normal and not shocking at all, heck the Empire gets invaded every second year by huge chaos/Druchii/Skaven/Ork/Golbin/undeadarmy. So you might infer or extrapolate that they are quite used to such horrible scenes and are somewhat desensitized. Plus as Isilendil said they are fighting for their homes, family and lives.

[Gondoriangrunt]

i never have these last stand with my empire troops.... they always run when getting mauled to badly (of course when the general is dead)

[Outlawstar15a2]

Yeah Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are some of the most dark and grim universes I've ever learned of, and you know what?.............. I wouldn't have it any other way. People of the Empire, people of Kislev, and the people of Tilea, Estalia, and all other Human realms including Cathay and Ind. They face large armies of horrific creatures damn near on a second to second basis so they are pretty use to war and stuff. So used and mired in it that all other aspects of their civilization has started to atrophy.

I read somewhere a long time ago that in the Warhammer world if you were to take all the Human nations and compiled their casualties together something like ten million people die every year from war and war related deaths. I don't know if I agree with the number as it was a unofficial source but it could be possible. Ten million dead in our world is nothing but in a medieval world thats a lot of dead people to have. Considering the Empire can't have more then three or four million people in it including the province of Sylvania and I doubt nations like Bretonnia and Tilea have populations anywhere near that.

[Ozzmosis]

10 million dead per year is definitely not "nothing" in our day. between 1939 and 1945 about 50million people died because of war. You're saying that it's nothing if it were like WW2 in full swing? 10 million per year, that's not something any ecosystem can support, fantasy or no. as you said, the empire, together with tilea and bretonnia, probs don't have more than 10 million people in total!

[Outlawstar15a2]

10 million dead per year is definitely not "nothing" in our day. between 1939 and 1945 about 50million people died because of war. You're saying that it's nothing if it were like WW2 in full swing? 10 million per year, that's not something any ecosystem can support, fantasy or no. as you said, the empire, together with tilea and bretonnia, probs don't have more than 10 million people in total!

It's nothing in the sense of numbers on a global scale. The US alone has 300 million people and that's only one country out of what 180? Close to 200? In the US 1,000,000 people between the ages of 18-25 die every year due to drugs, adolescent violence, abuse, and preventable accidents. And I haven't even added the thousands of viruses, bacteria, or other perils they are exposed to. Tens of millions die every year in the US for all imaginable things. Again only one country. ten million out of six billion is not a lot in terms of numbers. Yes, it is a Human tragedy. But I wasn't talking in Human terms. I mean a couple of million died in Haiti recently and out of the 200 countries in the world only a handful of them seem to care in the least. And thats mainly because it's prudent to do so in the long run on a political basis....

[midterm360]

Actually I thought the Death toll in Haiti was in the hundreds of thousands( My school raised 4 grand in a week for them, such a tragedy to have happened), but we all digress from the original meaning of the topic, and that was as to why the human morale is so high, I think that has been pretty thoroughly explored, but I think this could become a pretty cool debate.

[Outlawstar15a2]

Actually I thought the Death toll in Haiti was in the hundreds of thousands( My school raised 4 grand in a week for them, such a tragedy to have happened), but we all digress from the original meaning of the topic, and that was as to why the human morale is so high, I think that has been pretty thoroughly explored, but I think this could become a pretty cool debate.

Well, from one article I read the hundreds of thousands is the death toll for the capital. It gets much higher once the rest of the country is added. Though now that I think it I think I'm thinking of the homeless and displaced.

Eh? I like your style. Hell, you could be a rifleman any day in my beloved Hochland corp. :XDD

[midterm360]

Sorry already the empire about 40000 years in future leading my Astartes , But my past self would rather the amalgamation of my dwarven Longbeards and your Hochland gunner corps, it'll be the perfect partnership! While your gunners shoot the enemy my Longbeards can stand directly in front to protect them from melee whilst the gunners shoot the whole time! Due the short stature of the dwarves they wouldn't get shot in the back while at the same time nothing could actually get to your gunners. Continuous uninterrupted and withering fire from the best marskmen(almost gotta love them dwarves) and protection from some of the most kick butt warriors this side of the Old world.

[Vaz]

Hope we've all enjoyed our chinwag. Back to the topic at hand please?

[Outlawstar15a2]

Hope we've all enjoyed our chinwag. Back to the topic at hand please?

LOL hahaha! Ok uncle Vaz. You win.

In regards to the original topic of this thread, Human morale should be kept high if not for lore reasons then because the Empire even with player control, would be hard pressed to contend with Orcs and Chaos two factions that chew through morale like it was paper. Also morale should be kept relatively high in order to show the Empire's army as a full time, professional, well motivated fighting force. Regardless what the lore calls them the troops of the provincial state are not exactly militia grade foes to contend with unless they are part timers, but if I remember correctly troops are on a full time status. Empire troops it's their job, their making a career of it. That alone will motivate troops. You know if a trooper of the Empire fights hard enough and long enough he can become a Greatsword?

[Redron]

I dont know that Empire morale is all that high, they seem perfectly happy to break at any sign of chosen chewing through the ranks. The fighting to the man thing happens alot as chaos though, I recall alot of battles where my chaos forces were intent on taking the city, no matter the cost, and losing every single man, no routing units. It really is bloody and alot of fun . (This is on VH/VH)

[Morray]

See I have noticed a lot of posts saying, these guys are really experienced they wouldn't run, wouldn't that also stand the same fo rthe fact that if they are experienced they would know when it is best to run, i.e. the odds are so out of favour that running is the better option! A little bit off the point I know but also worth considering.

If the main reason is that they wouldn't run because they are defending thier familes then fair enough, I can't really say that isn't very 'Warhammery'

I still think the morale should be lower, and I think Gobo's should run at the first sight of trouble but I guess I just like dealing with those problems, I've assaulted castles with my militia and no general and had entire units fight to the last man...I've never seen that in any other TW game before? Ok it's great that they don't run away defending, but not runnign away when attacking is a bit odd...?

[midterm360]

See I have noticed a lot of posts saying, these guys are really experienced they wouldn't run, wouldn't that also stand the same fo rthe fact that if they are experienced they would know when it is best to run, i.e. the odds are so out of favour that running is the better option! A little bit off the point I know but also worth considering.

If the main reason is that they wouldn't run because they are defending thier familes then fair enough, I can't really say that isn't very 'Warhammery'

I still think the morale should be lower, and I think Gobo's should run at the first sight of trouble but I guess I just like dealing with those problems, I've assaulted castles with my militia and no general and had entire units fight to the last man...I've never seen that in any other TW game before? Ok it's great that they don't run away defending, but not runnign away when attacking is a bit odd...?

Well Moray when it is best to run is usually decided by the commander aka you the player. This is done via the "withdraw" button, and as I said earlier the likelihood of them breaking in a rout is very little considering the grim lifestyle to which most warhammer citizens have become accustomed.

[Kaliaeth Chillblade]

You are also neglecting to consider two VERY important things:

1. The morale of the Empire units in this mod is based on Army List leadership stats (ldrship and morale are the same thing in TT) and thus is canon.

2. Most soldiers in the Empire belong to one of Cults of War centered around this or that war God, particularily Sigmar. Life in the Warhammer world is a hard hell-filled struggle for the common man, just as it is for many impoverished Muslims in our own world. Just how those who misrepresent Islam promise eternal reward for bravely blowing yourself up, the Cults of Ulric and Sigmar promise a release from a hell-filled life and eternal reward and glory in the Hero's Hall for those who DIE bravely in combat for Empire and Emperor. Those who RUN, are damned, and they know it. The difference between our world and theirs: That Warrior Priest that is encouraging your halberd regiment and strengthing your arm with prayers to Sigmar is telling the truth.

So the bottom line is that for an Imperial soldier, a honorable death in combat is preferable to running away.

[Morray]

How very well put you two.

[Outlawstar15a2]

Ms. Kaliaeth. I noticed you have a RIP Blackomur in your sig. If I wanted to wear one to out of respect, who do I go to in order to receive one?

[Kaliaeth Chillblade]

Right click on mine, choose "properties", copy the URL and paste it into your sig block