Elven Units- Discussion and New Ideas

[Everto]

Now an AOR suggestion for the areas around Rivendell would be maybe dunedain rangers, you still have your ranger option and at the same time it wouldn't be to surprising to see dunedain rangers and elven warriors fighting side by side against bands of orcs in the areas around Rivendell. The unit itself would be very very limited and a merc.
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I see your point on the Elite Heavy Spear Unit. Its my own little project though that I want to present. It'll be something different... I promise

As for the Dunedain Rangers...they're coming out in the Eriadorian/Arnorian Faction Preview, and since they are not Elvish, they could be a Merc Unit i suppose, but not actually incorporated into the Elvish Ranks.

An interesting Idea would be to create a Merc Unit Around Rivendell and the Provinces that was A Mix Between Elven and Dunedain Rangers, fighting together, Half Dunedain Rangers, Half Noldorin Rangers... Hmmmm

[BohemianHussar]

I see your point on the Elite Heavy Spear Unit. Its my own little project though that I want to present. It'll be something different... I promise

As for the Dunedain Rangers...they're coming out in the Eriadorian/Arnorian Faction Preview, and since they are not Elvish, they could be a Merc Unit i suppose, but not actually incorporated into the Elvish Ranks.

An interesting Idea would be to create a Merc Unit Around Rivendell and the Provinces that was A Mix Between Elven and Dunedain Rangers, fighting together, Half Dunedain Rangers, Half Noldorin Rangers... Hmmmm

An interesting idea, I wouldn't go as far as half elven units though due to the lack of evidence of them or the relationships that produce them. I mixed fighting unit on the other hand would be nice but the elven portion would more likely be silvan or sindar elves due to them being more used to the bow than their noldorin brethren who are used to the frontline fighting.

If there is a spear unit Id like to see, it'd be an AOR one for Thranduil's hall, some type of palace guard. While I do like FROME axe unit, I feel like a palace guard unit should be more defensive in nature with a spear/polearm and/or shield. But that's just me. This idea was also offered in the old Silvan thread by me and a few others except we were focusing on a glaive wielding elf unit. My reasoning behind it was based on the fact that Thranduil's hall is a very well guarded place it seems in the Hobbit and if I recall much of his treasure is hoarded there.

One other unit that came to mind but probably wouldn't be logical is a Lindon marine unit, I say this due to the fact that Grey Havens is kinda far from any pirate havens such as Umbrar to suffer any threat at all but at the same time thought it would make a cool AOR unit. Personally I kinda wish Lindon was its own faction so that way there would be a new elven roster to expand on.

[Everto]

An interesting idea, I wouldn't go as far as half elven units though due to the lack of evidence of them or the relationships that produce them. I mixed fighting unit on the other hand would be nice but the elven portion would more likely be silvan or sindar elves due to them being more used to the bow than their noldorin brethren who are used to the frontline fighting.

If there is a spear unit Id like to see, it'd be an AOR one for Thranduil's hall, some type of palace guard. While I do like FROME axe unit, I feel like a palace guard unit should be more defensive in nature with a spear/polearm and/or shield. But that's just me. This idea was also offered in the old Silvan thread by me and a few others except we were focusing on a glaive wielding elf unit. My reasoning behind it was based on the fact that Thranduil's hall is a very well guarded place it seems in the Hobbit and if I recall much of his treasure is hoarded there.

One other unit that came to mind but probably wouldn't be logical is a Lindon marine unit, I say this due to the fact that Grey Havens is kinda far from any pirate havens such as Umbrar to suffer any threat at all but at the same time thought it would make a cool AOR unit. Personally I kinda wish Lindon was its own faction so that way there would be a new elven roster to expand on.

Lmao, I didn't mean half elven as in an inter species unit lol, I meant half in half, as in half duded with beards and half pointy eared people
(Oh and for the Record, Elrond is a Half Elf who chose to live with the Elves, whilst his brother began the line of the Numenorean Kings and was also half elven, ergo, Aragorn has some Elvish blood in him, and Elrond some human blood. Also, Aragorn and Arwen are distant, and I mean DISTANT cousins, but share a certain blood. So does Elrond and Aragorn for that matter...nevermind, enough of that loll)

I like both the idea behind Thranduil Palace Gaurd as well as the Lindon Marine Unit.

My heavy spear unit for the High Elves is going to be an AOR unit that has sworn to avenge the death of Gil Galad (who fought with his famous spear, ergo they honor him by fighting with his favored weapon), as well as the deaths of all the great Elf Lords who have died by the evils of sauron. They shall fight till they cleanse all Middle Earth of Sauron and his Evil, and have sworn not to sail to the Undying Lands till they accomplish that goal, or die trying.

[Everto]

Ideas from BFME 2 Mod...

Heavy High Elf AOR Unit (Rivendell Blades?)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

AOR Rivendell and Eregion Spear Unit (Death Spears)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I like the Red, Ain't gonna lie

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Knights of Amroth (AOR Heavy Cavalry for Amroth) likin the shields btw

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

An idea for a possible Ranger/Sentry of Rivendell (Possibly more spruced up)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Forest Warden Remodel? Id be all for it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blades of Thranduil

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mounted Blades of Thranduil

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Elven Archer

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Elven Infantry (Add Shield and bingo)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Haven Gaurds (AOR for Mithlond)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rivendell Cavalry

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lindon Sentry (AOR Unit for Mithlond)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So been gone for a bit, life caught up with me. Still working on my own renderings, but I hope this will bring up discussion and ideas for the time being.

[Finnduil]

Give at least a hood or something for the sentinels, the current ones look pretty lame.

[Everto]

Give at least a hood or something for the sentinels, the current ones look pretty lame.

Agreed, all these units need to be spiced up. Hopefully by this weekend Ill post my rendering and see what people think

[MAMO72]

A very good job Everto!! congrats to you. Implementing the Elven rooster with a diversification linked to different regions will increase the gladness of this wonderful mod. +rep to you

[Everto]

A very good job Everto!! congrats to you. Implementing the Elven rooster with a diversification linked to different regions will increase the gladness of this wonderful mod. +rep to you

Thank u good sir, thats the idea

An idea for an Elven Helmet


A collection of Noldorin Helmets


Noldorin Swords


Noldorin Knight

[BohemianHussar]

Must admit not a big fan of implementing some of those BFME units into the elven. The Thranduil blades don't have that mirkwood or silvan feel, especially since axes, bows, and spears were the main weapons of the more natural silvan elves. Even mounted units for Mirkwood seem a little to much because one doesn't have much use for cavalry when fighting in the thick woods.

The Lorien knight unit seems a bit out of place too, the horse itself reminds me of a rohirrum horse in design. But do agree a heavy cavalry unit would be nice, gamesworkshop to made a nice version of Galadhrim Knights. In general though I feel the knight title is something that doesn't fit the elven image. Lancer/Rider on the other hand feels more elvish.

Some of the units I like though, those Lindon sentries and the lindon spears would be nice, something that fits the region specially since that was Gil-Galad homeland/kingdom. As for that deathspear unit for Rivendell you proposed, it might be more suiting if it was for Lindon faction or a Lindon AOR unit considering that was Gil-Galad's home and not Rivendell. Still an amazing unit idea.

Other than that I like the rivendell ranger unit. A nice touch and realistic considering the borders of Rivendell were probably on constant watch against orc raiding parties. That very first unit pic reminds me glorfindel too, possible infantry model. Keep posting pics though, loving the swords and helmet designs at the moment, very nice.

One unit suggestion: AOR Avari warband merc unit (weapon-wise they'd probably be more natural as well, relying on spear, bow, axe, javelin) in the far East possibly (the Avari apparently had a small settlement near Dorwinion) that would have a slow slow respawn rate.

[jack2door]

I wouldn't want them to have 'Rivendell' in their names. Remember, Rivendell was protected by magic and thus wouldn't need guards

But apart from that, i'm all for new units for the elven factions. In my opinion the High elves suffer greatly from having a small range of units (in comparison to other factions.)

Oh and Everto, I like the red aswell

Ps: Impressive concept art!!!

[Svaline]

Lindon should defintely be it's own kingdom, with it's unique mix of Teler and Noldor people, and it's focus on the sea. The rivendell faction would start small but could quickly expand into Eregion and capture Ost-En-Edhil.

[Everto]

I wouldn't want them to have 'Rivendell' in their names. Remember, Rivendell was protected by magic and thus wouldn't need guards

My bad, Its supposed to be 'imladris' not rivendell, a mispelling on my part, and actually Rivendell had been assaulted in the war with Angmar, so Rivendell could be besieged by an army of great power and evil, so they would have actual gaurds and personal units of a sort.

But apart from that, i'm all for new units for the elven factions. In my opinion the High elves suffer greatly from having a small range of units (in comparison to other factions.)

Oh and Everto, I like the red aswell

Ps: Impressive concept art!!!

They defidently need a little more spice in their roster, agreed. Id love to incorporate Red in some sort of elite unit

Lindon should defintely be it's own kingdom, with it's unique mix of Teler and Noldor people, and it's focus on the sea. The rivendell faction would start small but could quickly expand into Eregion and capture Ost-En-Edhil.

I don't know about that, seeing as the elven faction is quite small as it is, and their is, (currently) not enough unit selection to make two faction, let barely one. That is why this thread exists, to make new ideas for high elven units. The silvan faction could possibly be split, (like in FROME), but i don't think the High Elves should be seperated seeing as their are not enough units, and having two elven factions with identical units (Eldar) is just ridiculous and boring. If you have a whole bunch of units that you have renderings of (such as drawings) or even better, actual models (lol) then by all means. But as of the moment, I have been trying to lobby for new units, and its a longgggg journey to see something come of it, so lets keep trying folks!

[Yarrum]

Ideas from BFME 2 Mod...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Heavy High Elf AOR Unit (Rivendell Blades?) Glorfindel Heavy Armor


AOR Rivendell and Eregion Spear Unit (Death Spears) Gil Galad


I like the Red, Ain't gonna lie


Knights of Amroth (AOR Heavy Cavalry for Amroth) likin the shields btw


An idea for a possible Ranger/Sentry of Rivendell (Possibly more spruced up) Heavy Armored Legolas


Forest Warden Remodel? Id be all for it Thranduil


Blades of Thranduil Glorfindel


Mounted Blades of Thranduil Glorfindel Mounted


Light Elven Archer Avari Archers


Light Elven Infantry (Add Shield and bingo) Avari Elves


Haven Gaurds (AOR for Mithlond) Outdated


Rivendell Cavalry WAY outdated render


Lindon Sentry (AOR Unit for Mithlond) Celeglin

So been gone for a bit, life caught up with me. Still working on my own renderings, but I hope this will bring up discussion and ideas for the time being.

Please use spoilers for all those images. Also, all of those units are from The Elven Alliance, a Bfme 1 mod. I added the text saying what all those units were in the mod. The creator, Celeglin, disappeared over two years ago, and his mod is in the hands of the admins of Revora Forums. There's not a chance they'll let you port them for TATW given the content that SHREDDER stole from the BFME games.

Edit: Also, this is the final version of the Rivendell Cavalry you posted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A while back, I worked on creating this unit in TATW using Celeglin's concept. I might get around to finishing it at some point.

[Everto]

Please use spoilers for all those images. Also, all of those units are from The Elven Alliance, a Bfme 1 mod. I added the text saying what all those units were in the mod. The creator, Celeglin, disappeared over two years ago, and his mod is in the hands of the admins of Revora Forums. There's not a chance they'll let you port them for TATW given the content that SHREDDER stole from the BFME games.

Edit: Also, this is the final version of the Rivendell Cavalry you posted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A while back, I worked on creating this unit in TATW using Celeglin's concept. I might get around to finishing it at some point.

I am by no means trying to copy the models completely, simply utilizing them ideas and presenting concepts. Honestly, the images, models, and for that matter the names are by no means what I believe are finished concepts that should be implemented into TATW, simply ideas and "POSSIBLY" the ground stones of future models. Please don't take the fact that I post something in this thread as something that I wish to immediately implement...by no means. Theyre concept models

And I can use larger groupings of images within spoilers, but it gets the attention of people quicker when they're out

... but next time I get my hands on a large conglomeration of images, I shalt use spoilers, unless its my own work lol

[SamwiseTheGay]

i think that elite units should look uniform. the ones from FRoME are nice but i dont think the multiple colours are a good idea.
with professional armies you should have them look similiar, with the changes being small (slight helmet differences, etc), as it reflects professionalism and looks more threatening
so if new units ARE implemented, i think uniformity is the way to go.

[jack2door]

My bad, Its supposed to be 'imladris' not rivendell, a mispelling on my part, and actually Rivendell had been assaulted in the war with Angmar, so Rivendell could be besieged by an army of great power and evil, so they would have actual gaurds and personal units of a sort.

I did not know that, It's been a long time since I read the books and although I have recently started to read them again, I've only just finished the Fellowship of the Ring - So I had completely forgotten about the war with Angmar

With this in mind, I would like to 'change my tune' as it were and give my full support to some Imladris specific units (Like the Gondor and Dwarven place specific units.)

[Anfauglir]

I like the idea of more elven units, but I think these should be elite and rare units, specific to an area - like the Lore mod Eregion Smiths. I also do not like the idea of beefing up the elven units from the TATW standard, as I think that the argument that the elves have had thousands of years to practice their martial skills is a bit stretched. Some of them have spent thousands of years singing and writing poetry, and hence the less skilled militias. What I would like to see is the general superiority of Elven prowess reflected in field skills for even their poorer units - e.g. schiltrom for militias, shieldwall for basic spears, spearwalls and so on.

[Everto]

i think that elite units should look uniform. the ones from FRoME are nice but i dont think the multiple colours are a good idea.
with professional armies you should have them look similiar, with the changes being small (slight helmet differences, etc), as it reflects professionalism and looks more threatening
so if new units ARE implemented, i think uniformity is the way to go.

Agreed, this topic has been discussed before and I have found that uniformity (especially in the High Elven ranks) has been the majority concensus on the topic of the Elven Military. Even when it comes to AOR units, I believe uniformity should defidently be implemented as much as possible to create a harmonized look of perfect military prowess.

With this in mind, I would like to 'change my tune' as it were and give my full support to some Imladris specific units (Like the Gondor and Dwarven place specific units.)

Thank you good sir Glad you like the ideas

I like the idea of more elven units, but I think these should be elite and rare units, specific to an area - like the Lore mod Eregion Smiths. I also do not like the idea of beefing up the elven units from the TATW standard, as I think that the argument that the elves have had thousands of years to practice their martial skills is a bit stretched. Some of them have spent thousands of years singing and writing poetry, and hence the less skilled militias. What I would like to see is the general superiority of Elven prowess reflected in field skills for even their poorer units - e.g. schiltrom for militias, shieldwall for basic spears, spearwalls and so on.

Elite/Rare Units- The ideas behind most of the AOR units are mid to late game units, as you mentioned the Eregion Smiths, or the slew of other elite units that are being discussed on this thread. So far ideas for a heavy cavalry archer unit, based in Eregion and Imladris, as well as an elite Imladris Gaurd (a ranged and melee elite unit) are up at the top of the idea list.
For the Lindon Regions, a possible Marine Unit is under discussion, one that perhaps hurls Javelins before entering combat.

Lower Tier Units- With that in mind, Lower tier AOR units are also needed to help diversify the elven roster. For instance, Lindon Sentries would be a nice basic archer and medium melee unit, capable of bolstering the early ranks of the High Elven armies of Lindon.
In Imladris, the Eastern Bastion, one extra low tier AOR unit would be very welcome as well, possibly a similar archer unit/ranger of some sort.

When speaking of the High Elven units, one must remember that the cultures of Imladris and Lindon are different because of their geography. The units of Lindon will be more, if I dare say, ceremonial. Their colors would be blue and white, blue because of their love of the sea, and white would be reflective of the pure and peaceful nature of the elves living there. Now these are just ideas, but one must remember that the elves of Lindon have not been cultivating a strong militaristic tradition, rather these basic AOR units would be of a simple (clean) garb, perhaps a golden decorative Emblem on their heads and no hood or helmet. obviously they'd be still proficient warriors, but they wouldn't have been trying to ward of the Evils of the World at their doorstep (unless one considers the Hobbits of the Shire to be dangerous minions of evil ).
Imladris on the other hand is situated in a region where the Evils of the World still lurk on their borders. Their units would be of a much stronger militaristic tradition, though perhaps fewer in number. Either way, my vision of the units coming out of Imladris are hardened veterans across the board. Unlike their bretheren in Lindon, they do not live in peaceful isolation, but rather have chosen to place themselves in the Trollshaws. Though Imladris is a refuge, it is one that is surrounded by evil, and the elves living their have chosen to live their and confront that fact. Because of this, their warriors are efficient killers and experts at hunting down orcs.

Field Skills- I hear you brother, the lower tier Elven units need more field skills. Schiltron and shieldwall would be nice in the early units. I also wish to see the basic elven infantry revamped, and to help reflect the elven martial prowess, be given two Javelins. I've explained my argument for this thoughroughly before, but quintisentially my point was that even those elves who have not spent their entire lives in a military service have been trained in martial arts. To make the most of these less armored units, and also to make up for the dwindling number of elves, they would obviously maximize upon this and make their units have as much of a punch as possible. Giving them two Javelins, or even one, would maximize the efficieny and also the reliability of the Early Elven Infantry. The elves would want to loose as few of their bretheren as possible in battle, and seeing as they have been fighting for so long, their military tradition would be reflected in such an enhancement in their basic military formations. They are like the Roman Army, clean, efficient, organized....and like to throw sum javalins

Btw...
Oropher's Chosen (FRoME) incredible looking unit. Trully Astonishing Stuff, and shows the possibility of a unit both proficient in Melee and Javelin

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Beorn]

Lindon warfare should reflect it's status as a Sea Power, and also, an organised and ancient tradition in the arms. They are pretty much the same Elves than managed to hold against Sauron when he invaded Eriador and destroyed Gondolin, and the same ones that fought in the Last Alliance battle.

Imladris, in the other hand, should have less forces, which should be more hybrid ones, reflects its status ad an advanced outpost, so bow/sword units and regular ones would make sense.

[Everto]

Lindon warfare should reflect it's status as a Sea Power, and also, an organised and ancient tradition in the arms. They are pretty much the same Elves than managed to hold against Sauron when he invaded Eriador and destroyed Gondolin, and the same ones that fought in the Last Alliance battle.

Imladris, in the other hand, should have less forces, which should be more hybrid ones, reflects its status ad an advanced outpost, so bow/sword units and regular ones would make sense.

I agree with less forces for Imladris, but that is already clearly reflected in the fact that Lindon had four cities whilst Imladris is...one. Because of this, the amount of troops recruited will obviously be smaller than that in Lindon. By creating AOR units for all of Lindon, this will reflect the larger population of Elves in the region.

The Elves residing in Lindon obviously participated in the great battles of Beleriand, as well as many marched upon Mordor in the Last Alliance. Yet the Elves residing in Imladris are not what I would consider "lesser" by any means.

The Elves of Imladris are largely those who fled Eregion, and the capital of the High Elves, Ost-En-Edhil. It was also from Imladris, and not from Lindon, that the Elven host united and marched upon Mordor in the Last Alliance of Elves and men. One must also remember that it is from Imladris that the Elven Armies fought against Angmar, and eventually defeated it alongised Arnor. I would not, by any means, consider Imladris to have Elves who are not equal to those in Lindon, on the contrary, I consider the Elves of Imladris to be those who have chosen to make a stand against the evils of the world, more so than those residing in Lindon even. The proud warriors of old have come here to avenge their fallen bretheren, to take back the once proud city of Ost-En-Edhil, and to make a final stand agains Sauron's Evil.

The units that I believe would be fitting for Imladris, as you said, would be hybrids. I think that a ranged unit with a strong melee attack, such as some ranger unit, would be a nice addition. Also a heavy horse archer unit that is also profficient in Melee.