Elven Units- Discussion and New Ideas

[Everto]

They are more blue than purple (and blue is considered highly "elvish").. but in any case, the colour purple has been considered kingly and royal throughout history, commonly used by emperors.. And aesthetic preference and appealing is something subjective, for example I like the colours of these units. And besides, diversity is good.



No..



Short answer: No.

Long answer: The helmets used in Warriors of Mithlond and Elven Nobles are in fact more Noldorin than the other ones - the Noldor of the First Age are described wearing "tall helmets". And why should the nobles have the same armour with the rest of the army?

Noted, Blue is Elvish.
And I stated before that Purple has been associated with Royalty, dully noted, IN ACTUAL HISTORY NOT IN MIDDLE EARTH.

I dont see where your issue is against the Eregion Smith swap for the Elven Nobles. They look a hellofalot more majestic and noble than the current models.

And we're in the THIRD AGE not the FIRST AGE, so that argument is without merit. And The Nobles should be more in tune with the rest of the army because as you can see, all the Nobles, such as Elrond and Haldir, were dressed in the same Armour as their Army. The Elven Army is that of Harmony and Perfection, the current warriors of mithlond and elven nobles, apart from the shields, do not fit in with the rest of the Design.

[Jean=A=Luc]

And The Nobles should be more in tune with the rest of the army because as you can see, all the Nobles, such as Elrond and Haldir, were dressed in the same Armour as their Army.

You're basing your conclusions too much on the movie. That doesn't necessarily make them untrue but generally saying that something is because the movie shows it is a bad idea if you're trying to establish some kind of an objective or general truth.

[Vaul]

You're basing your conclusions too much on the movie. That doesn't necessarily make them untrue but generally saying that something is because the movie shows it is a bad idea if you're trying to establish some kind of an objective or general truth.

Still, I think we can all agree that in relation to the TATW mod - the movies are just as viable as a source of lore as the books? Dare I say an equal source.

And I hope you can appreciate how restrained I am at the moment about these recent turns in discussion on what is an acceptable suggestion in the shadow of the books?

[Everto]

You're basing your conclusions too much on the movie. That doesn't necessarily make them untrue but generally saying that something is because the movie shows it is a bad idea if you're trying to establish some kind of an objective truth.

I understand your point and I take back my statement. I simply believe that the current look of the Elven Nobles is to saturated with Purple, as are the Mithlond Warriors.

The Mithlond Warriors can remain as such if they must, but the Elven Nobles should be reworked to a degree. And Honestly lets not kid ourselves, Most the Elven Designs originate to a large degree on the Movies, WHY? because the people at WETA did a really fantastic job at it. They spent years designing the movie and the costumes, and a large organization of people was dedicated to the task of creating these great designs for the movie, and they turned out magnificently.
I do not believe that pointing out how the Elven Noble "LOOK" has deviated away from that of the movie is a bad point to bring up, because the Elves looked fantastic in the films, no doubt about it. I do believe that there is plenty of room for new designs and new concepts, but I just believe the current look of the Elven Nobles Sub-par. The Sindar Nobles on the other hand look great imho...which btw are based on the movie? Ya, ya i think they are

[Everto]

Still, I think we can all agree that in relation to the TATW mod - the movies are just as viable as a source of lore as the books? Dare I say an equal source.

And I hope you can appreciate how restrained I am at the moment about these recent turns in discussion on what is an acceptable suggestion in the shadow of the books?

Goosfraba Im with you bro, lets not attack, lets discuss lol

And btw, on the Topic of Light Elven Infantry, Here is Dea Paladin's version. The thing I want to bring to attention are the swords, which are curved and more Elven in appearance, which is a far cry better than that of the current design. Also, I like the tunics better than the one's that are currently used as well as the look of the chain mail... good stuff
Not to sure if I like the No Helmet look, I think Basic Elven Infantry should have helmets, after all they're not archers
And the Shields, Again, I believe should be changed, Hopefully to Trojanesque one's

[Vaul]

I'm just saying for the fun of it, no need to escalate

The smiths of eregion are superb looking units, and they add to diversity which is my personal priority for the HE.


I find myself thinking a lot about high elven horse archers recently... Would such an addition be welcome? Perhaps Jean Luc could provide some insight to the high elven state of mind, or military philosophy if you will, because I would like to see that kind of unit, but I'm not entirely convinced that it is appropriate for the HE, my impression of them has always been an infantry-heavy army, greco-roman style... I don't know...

it would make for a nice diversification factor at least...

[Everto]

I think that a High Elven Heavy Horse Archer Unit would, as Jean Luc pointed out, be a good idea as long as it was only recruit able in Imladris, so they'd be an AOR unit that would make Imladris of great military importance to the High Elves. Also I just think Rivendell needs some AOR units IMHO

[Protestant Knight]

I think that a High Elven Heavy Horse Archer Unit would, as Jean Luc pointed out, be a good idea as long as it was only recruit able in Imladris, so they'd be an AOR unit that would make Imladris of great military importance to the High Elves. Also I just think Rivendell needs some AOR units IMHO

In The Silmarillion there are High Elven Horse Archers I cant think where right now but its ether Dagor Aglareb, or O hell one of the Great Battles of Beleriand they are there some where I no but I cant find my copy of the Silmarillion right now

[brymht]

I might actually say that Elves should be more AOR. Sylvan units tending to be recruitable in Forested areas; High elven units recruitable in non forested. Very basic units only recruitable in very mountainous terrain; to signify the low number of elves wanting to live there....

[brymht]

And please no elves with Axes. I don't know a single tolkien reference to elves with axes. It seems to go against a lot of who they were in his universe.

[Everto]

And please no elves with Axes. I don't know a single tolkien reference to elves with axes. It seems to go against a lot of who they were in his universe.

"...the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off all creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with AXES and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail...

Direct Quote from the Silmarillion, written by Tolkien about the Elven Kingdom of Doriath, Ancestors of the Sindar in Lothlorien. There's your Tolkien reference

[Ellin Athinaios]

"...the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off all creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with AXES and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail...

Direct Quote from the Silmarillion, written by Tolkien about the Elven Kingdom of Doriath, Ancestors of the Sindar in Lothlorien. There's your Tolkien reference

So in other words, it is ok for you if the Sindarin armour is based on the First Age (even if we're in the THIRD AGE, as you said), but if I do the same for the Noldorin Armour, my argument is without merit?...

Of course I support the axes for Silvan Elves btw.

Mind you, in this quote from the Silmarillion there is, again, a reference on "tall helms".

[Everto]

So in other words, it is ok for you if the Sindarin armour is based on the First Age (even if we're in the THIRD AGE, as you said), but if I do the same for the Noldorin Armour, my argument is without merit?...

Of course I support the axes for Silvan Elves btw.

Mind you, in this quote from the Silmarillion there is, again, a reference on "tall helms".

LMAO Touche Touche

All I want is for the Noldorin Nobles to have the same Armor (given more exquisite) as the rest of the Eldar units are equipped with. That is why I believe what the Eregion Smiths are wearing would be suiting (perhaps not in its current state, but more detailed and ornate), at least more than the current model of the High Elven Nobles. They Should at least be more in tune with the rest of the Military, because as of the moment they are a far cry from anything resembling the Eldar Military.

There will obviously always be disagreements because Tolkien didn't specify what the Armies looked like, whilst the Movies give clear cut and incredible visual designs.

And if "Tall Helms" are what we're looking for, than that leaves a huge amount of possibilities, including Warhammer Looking High Elves ...and we don't want that

[Beorn]

Norman helms would be the most accurate IMO

[Everto]

Norman helms would be the most accurate IMO

This what you had in mind?


I disagree with Norman Helms because they are far to simple. Elven helms should look more exotic than this simple design...Norman Helmets are more reminiscent of the Riders of Rohan and their style and armament, Ergo, not very applicable to the Elven armies.

If anything this could be closer to what we're looking for when it comes to "Tall Helms"


Or these helmets, A replacement possibly for the current mithlond helmets

[Vaul]

And if "Tall Helms" are what we're looking for, than that leaves a huge amount of possibilities, including Warhammer Looking High Elves ...and we don't want that

I would kill to somehow get KK interested in Warhammer!

[Jean=A=Luc]

You know the way to the Call of Warhammer mod, don't you?

[Vaul]

You know the way to the Call of Warhammer mod, don't you?

Yes, it is far from satisfactory... I don't want to spam this thread, but once you play KK's mods you just can't settle for less

All praise to the guys who made it, of course, hard work went into it and it shows... But they tried to implement certain warhammer concepts (magic for instance) into the MTW2 engine and I can't shake the feeling it's a bit too much of a stretch. But it's a huge step in the right direction

[bilwit]

Possibly Gaurds of Rivendell? or Lothlorien?

I could sooooo do something like that. Without the tacky cloth around the face, tilted shoulders and MMO-type bow of course.

[Everto]

I could sooooo do something like that. Without the tacky cloth around the face, tilted shoulders and MMO-type bow of course.

I think everyone would be more than glad to see what you come up with Bilwit