The Sleeping Giant

[L-Burna]

Why is holland from belgium? It's like giving spain to portugal.

+1 And Walachia and Moldavia (but without Bessarabia) was Romania.
There should also be Serbia if it possible to create it. Bulgaria and Albania too.
Norway should be independent.
Alsace-Lothringen was German (In this case Prussian)
Sicily and Sardinia should be owned by Italy.

[Seashore]

standing in lines was not something they did in WW1. the trenches that are in the game are in no way like the trenches they had in WW1. I would not use them for the same purpose. the trenches in NTW are more like rifle pits.

You are problably right. I just thought that the light infantry behaviour were more or less useless if the infantry were so spread out. I still think they should stand tighter. The trenches are still something that should protect against enemy infantry, which is hard if your soldiers are to spread out.

[gord96]

I can perhaps increase the calibration area, and perhaps 'slightly' reduce overall unit accuracy. But the artillery needs to remain the primary source of casualties.

good to hear

[gord96]

+1 And Walachia and Moldavia (but without Bessarabia) was Romania.
There should also be Serbia if it possible to create.
Norway should be independent.
Alsace-Lothringen was German (In this case Prussian)

there is only so much these guys can do with the way the map is. and when u start adding emergents to the startpos it can make the mod unstable. until the map can be edited the modders have to make gameplay a priority over history.

[Thoragoros]

You are problably right. I just thought that the light infantry behaviour were more or less useless if the infantry were so spread out. I still think they should stand tighter. The trenches are still something that should protect against enemy infantry, which is hard if your soldiers are to spread out.

First and foremost, light infantryt behavior is a bit more, in game terms, than just units spreading out, they receive something akin to a 'bonus' against incoming fire, which is meant to represent them using cover and, generally, just behaving like skirmishers.

Second, the AI is very, very averse to actually clicking the 'light infantry behavior' button, and so need to start out spread out from the beginning, otherwise we will see AI units marching in perfect lines, which simply ludicrous in a mod like this one.

there is only so much these guys can do with the way the map is. and when u start adding emergents to the startpos it can make the mod unstable. until the map can be edited the modders have to make gameplay a priority over history.

Very true.

[helmersen]

But is it possible to make Norway independent?

[L-Burna]

there is only so much these guys can do with the way the map is. and when u start adding emergents to the startpos it can make the mod unstable. until the map can be edited the modders have to make gameplay a priority over history.

Well he added Belgium, so I don't think there is a problem adding Romania and Norway ( both emergents).

[.Mitch.]

Well he added Belgium, so I don't think there is a problem adding Romania and Norway ( both emergents).

The work load for adding 2 emergents is a fair bit my friend. It's not a matter of just giving them the territory, it's then a matter of giving them stable economys, sorting their army, setting their diplomacy with everyone (which is hard and very time consuming) and a bit more.

It's not going to happen for the first startpos release, but as I'v said when this first version is done, I will happily make all these changes for the rest.

So the Romanian members can have Romania, and the Norwegions can have their norway etc etc

[Seashore]

First and foremost, light infantryt behavior is a bit more, in game terms, than just units spreading out, they receive something akin to a 'bonus' against incoming fire, which is meant to represent them using cover and, generally, just behaving like skirmishers.

Second, the AI is very, very averse to actually clicking the 'light infantry behavior' button, and so need to start out spread out from the beginning, otherwise we will see AI units marching in perfect lines, which simply ludicrous in a mod like this one.

Ok you are right. Maybe you can do something about the AI later if you can.

[Cellus...]

I can perhaps increase the calibration area, and perhaps 'slightly' reduce overall unit accuracy. But the artillery needs to remain the primary source of casualties.

Quote from same site:

It was the symbol of tactics subordinated to industrialisation where factories were needed to mass produce shells, foundries to manufacture the tubes and carriages, and ballistic calculations to determine backsight adjustments and firing angles. An artillery war was the war of engineers and blacksmiths, and a war of numbers.

Artillery was generally used in place of tactics. Battles with the highest casualties were usually ineffective. Mobility, speed, shock and flanking with infantry won battles, with artillery being a support weapon. Dozens of shells were expended for each casualty they caused. As said earlier, casualties do not make it effective, only poorly planned for. Verdun resulted in a million casualties, but nothing was gained. The first day of the Somme remains the highest number of casualties on a single day of battle (recorded with any precision), but it cost the British 420,000 men to gain just twelve kilometres. If you want 'realism', leave it up to the player to act as stupidly as possible - that is what will recreate a WWI battlefield, and give arty a huge number of casualties.

[LuckyLewis]

Yeah, Love the Norwegians so it would be nice to see them in the mod eventually. Take your time though, Mitch. You and Thoragoros are doing an excellent job!

[leviath]

They will certainly be added, for the moment they try to make the startpos more stable before to add something else. We're not anymore in 1914 so stop your nationalism thoughts everyone, they try to make everyone happy with this mod so don't worry ;-)

I have not played a campaign with the mod but what about the recruitement cost of line infantry ? I think it should cost between 100 and 200 to allow player and IA to buy loads of them to better represent this massive war.

[.Mitch.]

I have not played a campaign with the mod but what about the recruitement cost of line infantry ? I think it should cost between 100 and 200 to allow player and IA to buy loads of them to better represent this massive war.

Myself, Thor and a few others were earlier discussing the economic side of our campaign.
With huge casulties in each battle we will definatly make it able to rebuild your ever deminishing forces that little bit easier.

This will be done however with Thor, I'm sure he will explain what he plans to do with the unit costs etc.

[Thoragoros]

Quote from same site:



Artillery was generally used in place of tactics. Battles with the highest casualties were usually ineffective. Mobility, speed, shock and flanking with infantry won battles, with artillery being a support weapon. Dozens of shells were expended for each casualty they caused. As said earlier, casualties do not make it effective, only poorly planned for. Verdun resulted in a million casualties, but nothing was gained. The first day of the Somme remains the highest number of casualties on a single day of battle (recorded with any precision), but it cost the British 420,000 men to gain just twelve kilometres. If you want 'realism', leave it up to the player to act as stupidly as possible - that is what will recreate a WWI battlefield, and give arty a huge number of casualties.

The problem is, the BAI will almost always 'act stupidly' as you put it.

Now, AI aside, please keep in mind, even vanilla NTW is merely 'interpreted realism.' It is impossible to perfectly portray any given era inside of a modern computer/video game. Thus, game developers and modders alike, must work within parameters that the game allows.

Thus, artillery accounting for 67% of casualties, artillery was the weapon of choice throughout the war. Mitch and myself must therefore decide how best to replicate this inside of the game, and at current, polishing and updating aside, I believe that making artillery a very deadly weapon, is the best way to portray this.

WWI infantry did not have freedom of movement across the battlefield, this was due not only to artillery, but also to MGs. Since we don't have MG of any kind right now, artillery must basically fill both roles.

If you want 'free range' infantry that can walks across the battlefield unharmed, this is not the mod for you. Idling infantry will get chewed up. It is really just that simple.

They will certainly be added, for the moment they try to make the startpos more stable before to add something else. We're not anymore in 1914 so stop your nationalism thoughts everyone, they try to make everyone happy with this mod so don't worry ;-)

I have not played a campaign with the mod but what about the recruitement cost of line infantry ? I think it should cost between 100 and 200 to allow player and IA to buy loads of them to better represent this massive war.

Yes. Mitch is working on the economy from the startpos, I am handling it from the data side. 100-200 will be about the cost of most Conscript Battalions +/- 50. Rifle Battalions (standard infantry) will cost in the range of about 300, +/- 50. Costs will fluctuate due to a much heavier value on industries, shifting (and sometimes conflicting) technological updates, and the simple need to 'rush' troops to the front to replenish losses.

Prepare for a much heavier reliance on Conscript Battalions, who train in 1 turn, as opposed to Rifle Battalions which train in 2-3 turns. 2-3 turns will now seem like an eternity due to the nature of combat and the need to protect one's industries that may be too close to the war zone for comfort.

[.Mitch.]

Prepare for a much heavier reliance on Conscript Battalions, who train in 1 turn, as opposed to Rifle Battalions which train in 2-3 turns. 2-3 turns will now seem like an eternity due to the nature of combat and the need to protect one's industries that may be too close to the war zone for comfort.

That sounds very good mate! Reading that I myself now actualy can't wait for this mod to progress!



One other thing, I realised I never actualy went over the alliance values with you, tell me if this is ok for all the allied nations.

e.g Autria - German Relations table

Historical friendship: +100 (-)
Military alliance: +80
Trade agreement: +20 (+)
An enemy of my enemy is my friend: +15 (+)
Same government type: +15 .
Total: +230

(Any of the values can change up or down)


I'll post the enemy nations starting relationship now.

All neutral nations will obviously have simply 0 towards everyone else, unless you want that to change? (I'd like to do that in a second release like at the beta stage because it take ageess, thats if you want them changed.)
Trade agreements might add +15 here and there for any trading neutral nations with a major nation.

[Thoragoros]

That sounds very good mate! Reading that I myself now actualy can't wait for this mod to progress!



One other thing, I realised I never actualy went over the alliance values with you, tell me if this is ok for all the allied nations.

e.g Autria - German Relations table

Historical friendship: +100 (-)
Military alliance: +80
Trade agreement: +20 (+)
An enemy of my enemy is my friend: +15 (+)
Same government type: +15 .
Total: +230

(Any of the values can change up or down)


I'll post the enemy nations starting relationship now.

All neutral nations will obviously have simply 0 towards everyone else, unless you want that to change? (I'd like to do that in a second release like at the beta stage because it take ageess)
Trade agreements might add +15 here and there for any trading neutral nations with a major nation.

Hmm, the only thing I might change is Same Government Type.

Reading that, I just realized that Germany should probably be government type Empire, while Austria should probably be government type Absolute Monarchy. Or then again, Austria could also be government type Constitutional Monarchy, since they were, technically speaking, a 'Dual Monarchy.'

To account for the difference, perhaps you could up historic friendship to 120(-)? (-) Because the relations between Austria and Germany decreased steadily over the course of the war.

What do you think?

[.Mitch.]

Hmm, the only thing I might change is Same Government Type.

Reading that, I just realized that Germany should probably be government type Empire, while Austria should probably be government type Absolute Monarchy. Or then again, Austria could also be government type Constitutional Monarchy, since they were, technically speaking, a 'Dual Monarchy.'

To account for the difference, perhaps you could up historic friendship to 120(-)? (-) Because the relations between Austria and Germany decreased steadily over the course of the war.

What do you think?

Yeh sounds good, I can change the gov types, but again I'd like to do that in a 1.1 release, I'd prefer to just get it out there for the nice folks that are waiting patiently haha. But yeh, I'll up friendship like you said.

[Acousticx]

Haven't got to play mod yet, but can infranty make good stands? Like if they have a good place of cover can they take on a group of infranty say, outnumbered 5-10? Also, are there generals in this?!

[DGatsby]

Yeh sounds good, I can change the gov types, but again I'd like to do that in a 1.1 release, I'd prefer to just get it out there for the nice folks that are waiting patiently haha. But yeh, I'll up friendship like you said.

Hey everyone,
I just wanted to point out quickly that both the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian empire were constitutional monarchies. Not in the modern sense since nowadays constitutional monarchies only have emperors as figure heads, but in a historical sense because the emperors actually had influence and control in government. The only absolutist government was Russia, which is pretty ironic when you consider that the allies were fighting in part to rid the world of absolutism. Or so their propaganda would have us believe

Also on this note, could you implement the death of any national leaders? For example, Franz Josef I of Austria-Hungary died in 1916 and Karl I became the Emperor-King.

And, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but are the flags going to be changed? There already is a mod for NTW with WWI era flags out, you could possibly use that.

[Thoragoros]

And, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but are the flags going to be changed? There already is a mod for NTW with WWI era flags out, you could possibly use that.

Please find me the link to that mod and I will contact the creator for permission, as the flags I have come up with are rather basic, and I really don't think they do Mitch's work any justice. Something a bit more 'professional' is in line for what he's done with the startpos.