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Thread: Tsardoms Total War - FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

  1. #141
    Son of Fire's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Frescoes tend to be a decent source...
    There has been some discussion about how much stylizing gets put into them, but some prominent historians (Dr Tim Dawson) think that the stylizing though prominent, does not include equipment that was not used...
    So basically... they are just really pretty versions of the actual gear...
    Though there are some conventions, such as the legs... usually the lower portions of the figures are done in a classical style, such as sandals and the like, which were hardly used by men-at-arms on campaign, but barring that, what was depicted is what was common enough to warrant depiction.
    "Such Heroic Nonsense."

  2. #142
    mircea's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by Romano-Dacis View Post
    In terms of swords: it is true that both curved and straight-edge swords are noticed, but straight-edge swords are in greater abundance.
    Mate, I think that you missed a phrase

    Both straight, double-edged bladed swords as well as curved bladed swords are widely used, although by middle-late XVI th century, the curved swords (scimitars) seems to partially replace the straight swords. For most part of XVth century, the most common type of sword used in the region was the double-edged bladed sword, with straight crossguard, and hilt ended in a disc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romano-Dacis View Post
    As for more armors, I doubt plate-armor was all that rare. It seems to be an exaggeration from Romanian historians during the communist era, likely going hand in hand with the "armed peasants in folk costumes" image they tried to present in their movies. For instance, at the Cozia Monastery, with frescoes dating from Mircea the Old's reign, we find a display of plate armor on the left side of this image:

    Although the Communist era historiography is contains a large number of exaggerations, I don't think is the case on this particular topic. I base my assumption on several logical consideration, as well as on contemporary testimonies. First of all, an large number of knights in full armor represents an economical burden for even the richest countries, with strong economies, flourishing cities and with well organized guilds. While in the case of Muntenia or Moldavia, the economy was largely agrarian, with only a low level of urbanization. Secondly, for a state that clashes frequently with Tatars (later Ottomans), an army that includes a large percent of knights in plate armor is more a nussciance than a asset. Even more, many of the pitched battles fought by Romanians were not in open field, but rather in forested places, swamps, hills, places that are hardly suitable for a army that includes a significant number of heavy soldiers. Thirdly, many travelers such as Georg Reciherstorffer, Italian Anton Verancsics talk about the scarcity of plate armors, and even the frescoes presented by you feature only plate or lamellar cuirasses, and no full plate armors, such as these:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...e-p1000557.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AfonsoI-P.jpg

  3. #143

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Nice preview!!!

  4. #144
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by mircea View Post
    many travelers such as Georg Reciherstorffer, Italian Anton Verancsics talk about the scarcity of plate armors
    yes but they say there existed platemail armours...

    about the price and the abundance: where where platemail armours abundant? even in France platemail armours were not so abundant and very expensive... ..I don't think your theory stands!

    about full platemail maybe you're right! Romanians had full platemail armours but not that early...
    in any case full platemail is used for late units and as upgrades so I think it was a good choice!
    Last edited by Visarion; May 28, 2010 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #145

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Awesome units! I especially like the Moseni Archers. I didnt't know it was possible to have archers that have a two handed spear as secondary weapon. Where is that from?

  6. #146
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Awesome units! I especially like the Moseni Archers. I didnt't know it was possible to have archers that have a two handed spear as secondary weapon. Where is that from?
    glad you like it well, some coding can do anything
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
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  7. #147
    Zack-Stefy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Romanian: Minunat, abea astept sa joc acest mod!
    English: great! i can't wait to play this mod!

  8. #148
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    sigur nu e abia?

  9. #149
    Zack-Stefy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by Visarion View Post
    sigur nu e abia?

    Cum zici tu !
    Am inceput sa fac o gramada de greseli gramaticale, de cand cu yahoo messenger

  10. #150
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    As much as i love seeing another romanian writing here, you should keep it all in english or put a spoiler around the romanian writing

    And regarding the previous discussions of platemails. I think that Wallachia should be very limited in this type of armour, it was very rare and expensive. Also it would take away the beauty of the faction. My only wish would be maybe to see some crossbowmen or hangunners (they were rare but they existed) and also maybe some Szekely mercenaries

  11. #151

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Yes, use spoilers when writing in romanian.

    Now, I am interested...Were there some germans in Transylvania? Could they be used for some unit?

    We will make some german knights and units for Serbia...They were used by Dusan for his personal guard, and inhabited a few cities, where they used to work in mines.
    Last edited by il_duce_!; June 08, 2010 at 07:57 AM.

    TTW GRANDMASTER

  12. #152
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    well there are Saxons in Transylvania but we cant give them to Wallachia since that province is part of Kingdom of Hungary. so they go to Hungarian roster

  13. #153
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Yeah, there are a few areas in southern transilvania where saxons were settled and along the danube where swabians settled. There are still german communities in transilvania to this day, although most of them emigrated to germany after the fall of communism. But as matko said they would be part of the Hungarian roster and they were usually tradesmen, rarely going to war. Also, the saxon communities were in conflict many times with wallachia because of trade routes and taxes. Who do you think made up all the crazy stories about vlad the impaler drinking blood and eating people? It was the saxon traders who tried to discredit him to the pope and the hungarian king and get rid of him because of a trade conflict

  14. #154
    2Shy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by il_duce_! View Post
    We will make some german knights and units for Serbia...They were used by Dusan for his personal guard, and inhabited a few cities, where they used to work in mines?
    So this made them mercenaries.I can see your point and I agree with you.Bulgaria have tartar units at disposal but we all don't want to see armies of german knights for serbia (Im scared even when I think about it ).

  15. #155
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Well, the Germans in the Serbian army were indeed mercenaries. And, as Wallachian said, the Saxons were miners and rarely went to war. And even if a Saxon miner unit is made, they were settled all over the Balkans (Transylvania, Serbia, Bulgaria etc), so it wouldn't be factionally overwhelming (though I don't think a Saxon miner unit is needed).

  16. #156
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
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    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Saxons lived in Wallachia too! Most of them lived in Transilvania but many lived at the border between Wallachia and Transylvania and made trade in both states...

  17. #157

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    As has already been mentioned: the Germans were mostly merchants and did not go to war too often, at least never as their own distinct military units. The Swabians in Banat were actually settled much later, by the Habsburgs, but those in Transylvania were indeed there since the 12th century, their rights and privileges formalized in the thirteenth century.

    As for the Wallachian roster and armors: it will be kept as it is for now. Maybe in the future it can be refined, but I don't think it is very "heavy." If worst comes to worst, we will just make the boieri more expensive to prevent them from becoming the dominant part of the cavalry. In Europa Barbarorum for instance, the Tarabostes of the Dacians were insanely expensive (almost 3,000gp for one unit!) but we shouldn't restrict a Wallachian player by design from having them. Wallachia received heavy influences from the Medieval West so it is important that we show it. The backbone of Wallachian cavalry will be the curteni and calarasi however, who will probably be given advantages in terms of stats to ensure they are used more. I know Antonius Bonfini for instance commented on the excellent quality of Wallachian archers, and it is intended to make Wallachia's archers (foot and mounted) be the dominant force of the army.

  18. #158

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Quote Originally Posted by mircea View Post
    Although the Communist era historiography is contains a large number of exaggerations, I don't think is the case on this particular topic. I base my assumption on several logical consideration, as well as on contemporary testimonies. First of all, an large number of knights in full armor represents an economical burden for even the richest countries, with strong economies, flourishing cities and with well organized guilds. While in the case of Muntenia or Moldavia, the economy was largely agrarian, with only a low level of urbanization. Secondly, for a state that clashes frequently with Tatars (later Ottomans), an army that includes a large percent of knights in plate armor is more a nussciance than a asset. Even more, many of the pitched battles fought by Romanians were not in open field, but rather in forested places, swamps, hills, places that are hardly suitable for a army that includes a significant number of heavy soldiers. Thirdly, many travelers such as Georg Reciherstorffer, Italian Anton Verancsics talk about the scarcity of plate armors, and even the frescoes presented by you feature only plate or lamellar cuirasses, and no full plate armors, such as these:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...e-p1000557.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AfonsoI-P.jpg
    I have always liked you Mircea for your rationality. I second all your statement here. +rep

  19. #159

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Very historical acurately units ,thanks to creators

  20. #160

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: Principality of Wallachia

    Saxons werea aslo "imported" by the bosnian kings to work in the bosnian mines of central bosnia.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

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