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Thread: Ideas for garrison_units

  1. #1
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Ideas for garrison_units

    As some readers may know, one of the problems with garrison scripts has been that the garrison can walk off if it survives and join the rest of the faction army.

    Now that the destroy_units + unit attribute ability has been worked out and shown to work, we can now do a garrison script for every location, with the simple format

    If settlement under siege, check size of garrison, if garrison less than x amount create a few generic garrison units. These units will need to be recruitable by all factions to avoid over-complicating the script, but we can different units in different locations.

    The problem is that any units given the attribute garrison_unit for the purposes will have to be destroyed at the end of the turn when the settlement isn't under siege. So the units will have to be removed from the EDB, they won't be able to be recruited in barracks.

    Ideas for groups of factions / areas of map and time scales - (ie start to 1300 / 1300 to 1450 / 1450 to end)

    Note the more units chosen, the fewer that can be recruited in the EDB.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    As some readers may know, one of the problems with garrison scripts has been that the garrison can walk off if it survives and join the rest of the faction army.

    Now that the destroy_units + unit attribute ability has been worked out and shown to work, we can now do a garrison script for every location, with the simple format

    If settlement under siege, check size of garrison, if garrison less than x amount create a few generic garrison units. These units will need to be recruitable by all factions to avoid over-complicating the script, but we can different units in different locations.

    The problem is that any units given the attribute garrison_unit for the purposes will have to be destroyed at the end of the turn when the settlement isn't under siege. So the units will have to be removed from the EDB, they won't be able to be recruited in barracks.

    Ideas for groups of factions / areas of map and time scales - (ie start to 1300 / 1300 to 1450 / 1450 to end)

    Note the more units chosen, the fewer that can be recruited in the EDB.
    Spear militia, Archer militia, Fyrd (perhaps, seeing as it's England-only), Crossbow militia. That should be enough, you don't want a trained garrison or anything.
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

  3. #3
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Sir W.

    spear militia and archer / crossbow militia would be my choices - but I'm not sure how that would work out for every faction.
    with urban militia for italian areas.

    would need to closely examine every roster and see what units were duplicated at the lowest levels of recruitment - or at different times.

    I'd dump fyrd spears from the EDU entirely, the english spear militia are pretty much what the fyrd was - the name lingered on after the norman conquest,
    but the units would be indistinguishable from

  4. #4
    Trinity's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Peasants? They are useless cannon fodder, perfect for sieges.

  5. #5
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    peasants - useless is the right term - better to remove from the EDU altogether and replace with proper garrison units?

  6. #6
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    peasants - useless is the right term - better to remove from the EDU altogether and replace with proper garrison units?
    Totally agree. Especially the faction specific ones (i.e. Highland rabble, Transylvanian Peasants).

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus View Post
    Totally agree. Especially the faction specific ones (i.e. Highland rabble, Transylvanian Peasants).
    Transylvanian peasants seem to be quite a lot better than bog-standard peasants in my experience But they're still not really worth keeping.
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

  8. #8
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Basic garrison units:

    garrison - archer (using clone Prussian archer)
    - crossbow (using cloned crossbowmen)
    - spear (using cloned spear militia)
    - sword (using cloned light swordsmen)
    - axe (using cloned viking raider)
    - cavalry (using cloned cavalry militia)
    - pike (using cloned pikemen)
    - halberd (using cloned halberd militia)
    - arbalest (using cloned arbalest militia)

    spawn 6 units - options sword or axe; archer or crossbow; pike or halberd. - 2 spear, 2 missile, 1 melee, 1 cavalry

    will need to be potentially recruitable by all factions in every settlement, but not included in the EDB as they'll be destroyed at the end of each turn
    and then immediately rebuilt if the settlement is still under siege.
    (seems to be the most economical way of coding it - only takes 29 lines to destroy all garrison units, but thousands to create.)

    -----------

    candidates for removal (note we can keep the units we can clone - no need to remove spear militia etc from EDU)
    (we'll need 9)

    Peasants
    Highland Rabble
    Dismounted Turgahut - duplicated unit
    Merc Monster ribault
    Merc Monster bombard
    Svenner /Scout (pretty much the same unit?)
    Battlefield Assassins
    Hashashim Mercs
    Fyrd Spearmen (obsolete - england already starts with spear militia)

    any other options?
    Last edited by Gorrrrrn; April 09, 2010 at 06:23 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    Basic garrison units:

    garrison - archer (using clone Prussian archer)
    - crossbow (using cloned crossbowmen)
    - spear (using cloned spear militia)
    - sword (using cloned light swordsmen)
    - axe (using cloned viking raider)
    - cavalry (using cloned cavalry militia)
    - pike (using cloned pikemen)
    - halberd (using cloned halberd militia)
    - arbalest (using cloned arbalest militia)

    spawn 6 units - options sword or axe; archer or crossbow; pike or halberd. - 2 spear, 2 missile, 1 melee, 1 cavalry

    will need to be potentially recruitable by all factions in every settlement, but not included in the EDB as they'll be destroyed at the end of each turn
    and then immediately rebuilt if the settlement is still under siege.
    (seems to be the most economical way of coding it - only takes 29 lines to destroy all garrison units, but thousands to create.)

    -----------

    candidates for removal (note we can keep the units we can clone - no need to remove spear militia etc from EDU)
    (we'll need 9)

    Peasants
    Highland Rabble
    Dismounted Turgahut - duplicated unit
    Merc Monster ribault
    Merc Monster bombard
    Svenner /Scout (pretty much the same unit?)
    Battlefield Assassins
    Hashashim Mercs
    Fyrd Spearmen (obsolete - england already starts with spear militia)

    any other options?
    Svenner = Scout. Are both still in the game? I can't recruit Svenner as Denmark... have a unit of Huscarls/Knights for castles? Oh, and what are battlefield assassins?!
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    The pike or halberd shouldn't be before they're actually available.

    Svenners are for Norway I thin and battlefield assassins are for hungary or something...

    As for the removal of peasants altogether, in the early campaign they're good for keeping happiness up in castles because everything else is either unavailable (buildings not built) or simply take too long. I just feel they should be kept, but definitely remove highland rabble and replace them with peasants.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by meese View Post
    The pike or halberd shouldn't be before they're actually available.

    Svenners are for Norway I thin and battlefield assassins are for hungary or something...

    As for the removal of peasants altogether, in the early campaign they're good for keeping happiness up in castles because everything else is either unavailable (buildings not built) or simply take too long. I just feel they should be kept, but definitely remove highland rabble and replace them with peasants.
    They're Hungarian, but they just look like scary axemen that can hide anywhere really. Mustering halls in my opinion should recruit spear militias.
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Walter View Post
    Mustering halls in my opinion should recruit spear militias.
    If so, I wholeheartedly support the extermination of our peasant populations.

  13. #13
    SoulBlade's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Miles (england) - they have the same stats as Mailed knights
    Hashashims - useless unit, AI never uses it, and as a human player i'd say they aren't worth their effort (training endless assassins) and price (recruitmend cost, upkeep and such).
    Last edited by SoulBlade; April 09, 2010 at 08:40 AM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by meese View Post
    If so, I wholeheartedly support the extermination of our peasant populations.
    Well, there's hardly any point in recruiting them anyway. They're hardly even cost-effective in my opinion, I'd rather just use spare militia units from a city that can actually fight a bit.
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

  15. #15
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Should be easy enough to separate the later units from early ones - suggest date 1350 - 75 -
    we can use if I_TurnNumber > xxx for the recruitment of later units.
    as units are recruited on a settlement basis, we can vary the date pike / halberd / arbalest appear in different parts of the world.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by meese View Post
    If so, I wholeheartedly support the extermination of our peasant populations.
    Meese used to work in the Cheka.

  17. #17
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    I would drop Hasishim, the Hungarian Assasins, both the merc. ribaults and bombard and also the Fyrd, though in model.db we can have its textures and model for England.

    Oh, and peasantst too..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    The Hashashim actually existed, whereas the Battlefield Assassins didn't, so I'd dump them but not the former.

  19. #19
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Looking again at the EDU I notice there are 4 peasant units: peasants, southern peasants, EE peasants and ME peasants, so that's 4 units
    the dismounted turgahut are a duplicate of the dismounted turgaht
    highland rabble and fyrd spearmen look surplus
    I can't see any point in mercenary monster bombards or ribaults and the battlefield assassins can also go.

    So we have 10 units that can be replaced without too much argument.

    Detailed list of proposed garrison units:

    New proposed garrison units (and units cloned from)
    ----------------------------------------------------

    start - 1350
    ------------

    Garrison Archer Militia (EE Archer Militia)

    Garrison Axe Militia (Berdiche Militia)

    Garrison Cavalry Militia (Merchant Cavalry Militia)

    Garrison Crossbow Militia (Urban Crossbow Militia)

    Garrison Sword Militia (Urban Militia)

    Garrison Spear Militia (Urban Spear Militia)


    1350 - end
    ----------

    Garrison Arbalest Militia (Arbalest Militia)

    Garrison Cavalry Militia (Merchant Cavalry Militia)

    Garrison Halberd Militia (ME Halberd Militia)

    Garrison Longbow Militia (Longbowmen)

    Garrison Pike Militia (Pike Militia)

    Garrison Sword Militia (Urban Militia)
    -------------------------------------------------

    anyone fancy producing an EDU and related files for this?
    Note all units will need to be recruitable by all factions.
    Last edited by Gorrrrrn; April 10, 2010 at 04:15 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ideas for garrison_units

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulBlade View Post
    Miles (england) - they have the same stats as Mailed knights
    Hashashims - useless unit, AI never uses it, and as a human player i'd say they aren't worth their effort (training endless assassins) and price (recruitmend cost, upkeep and such).
    Miles are actually better than Mailed Knights marginally to represent the Norman elite status, and Sicily have them too. I have no idea about Hashashim myself.
    ...ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

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