War of the Silmarils

[Ngugi]

Yes there is a hardcoded limit in children, can't have more than four. We had a conversation with Joris about how to solve this, and I remember he suggested we should have two Feanors in the family tree, so that all the sons can be included, and I thought that would look silly..

And because I still think that would look silly, I just thought of how to make it not look silly: we can simply use a second family tree (factions can have second separate invisible family trees, which take up the throne if the first family tree runs out of heirs.) The main family tree will include Maedhors, Maglor, Celegorm and Curufin, and the second will include Caranthir and Amrod (Amras had actually died at Losgar, so there will only be 6 sons). So there will still be two Feanors, but one will be invisible, and all the sons are thus properly family members.

Sounds as the best solution then This is the way Gandalf or Glorfindel work in vanilla I assume?

If one wanted to go hard core lore all but Maehdros and Curufin should been in the hidden tree, as none of them got children, while Mae. (whom should get an infertile-trait) is the official lord and Curu. is father of Celerimbor (whom I guess you'll give us as this faction).
That would not work either then - if one wanted to - I can see (thinking of a sub mod here, haha).

Thank you for the answers

[alreadyded]

Seems like a stupid thing to hardcode as peeps in the Middle Ages, and indeed up until about the 1950's had more than four children.

I don't see how you will be able to have a balrog general with troll bodyguards. It might be possible but I can't wrap my weed soaked mind around it.

[Ellin Athinaios]

This is the way Gandalf or Glorfindel work in vanilla I assume?

No, Gandalf and Glorfindel in vanilla are simple generals, not family members.

If one wanted to go hard core lore all but Maehdros and Curufin should been in the hidden tree, as none of them got children, while Mae. (whom should get an infertile-trait) is the official lord and Curu. is father of Celerimbor (whom I guess you'll give us as this faction).

Noone will be infertile. They didn't have children in the book (except Curu), but they could have, had they not been so preoccupied with stuff like the silmarils and war all the time. The fact that they all died didn't help either.

Also, those in the hidden family tree still have children normally.

Thank you for the answers

Anytime.

I don't see how you will be able to have a balrog general with troll bodyguards. It might be possible but I can't wrap my weed soaked mind around it.

Hmm, I thought we thought we knew how to do that.

Isn't it the same as having a normal orc general with a troll bodyguard, just different size?

[Agamemnon]

Different battle model, but should be the same.

[alreadyded]

They will be mounts though right, so wouldn't the general model (balrog) just be a rider placed ON the mount model (trolls)? Like a general is placed ON elephants or horses when they are mounted. If we don't make them mounts it might work, but that might cause a CTD due to mounted animations on an infantry unit if I remember right, and they wouldn't be the same in battle. I have never made a mounted general with a different bodyguard, but there may still be a way. I haven't tested it or anything (at least recently), I just can't think of a way how. In my mod I hide the original general and bodyguard models "inside" my creatures mounts (you adjust various mount stats such as the radius, height, rider positions, etc. to certain numbers and they just disappear for some reason, no clue why), in yours you want to make the actual generals creatures. I did it the way I did for a reason, because I couldn't think of or come up with any other way.

[Ellin Athinaios]

I was under the impression, when we were talking about possible generals of different sizes, that they wouldn't have to be elephants/mounts. There is an infantry version of the Balrog in the EDU anyway - wouldn't that work as a general with a troll bodyguard (trolls being also infantry), especially if it had the same size with the trolls?

[alreadyded]

But the balrogs are not the general. If you put a mounted elephant general with an infantry unit... well I don't know or I don't remember... I am guessing CTD a few seconds into the battle. Joris should be able to test that though by making Sauron or the elephant balrog the general of an infantry unit of trolls. I am too lazy to test it myself right now, I am pretty sure I tested it before though so it probably didn't turn out well.

EDIT: Just tried it real quick out of curiosity and.... surprise! I was right, CTD a few seconds into battle (I knew I tested it before). I am pretty sure it is because all generals need certain animations so they can be riders and wave their hands about and such. You will have to have one man unit mount generals (which is the one man mount units I was talking about the entire time). Or mounted generals with matching bodyguards for the balrogs (multiple mount units).

[Ellin Athinaios]

Bugger..

But what if the general's battle model itself is a (troll-sized) Balrog? Would that be possible?

Edit: multiple mount units might be the easiest way I guess.

[alreadyded]

The size is not a problem, you can use any size model. The animations needed for generals are a different story all together, and that is what makes all this difficult. Not impossible though, I may be able to crack the code.


Edit: Wow I am good, I figured it out how to make it work. But like I said before you need to make them infantry units (which will require some reanimating), which sucks because even if they are huge, the game still treats them as small and they act and react as such. Meaning they react to every little hit and would be useless so large. Better of just keeping them mounts if you want them to be big.

[Earl of Memory]

I wish you good luck alreadyded!

[alreadyded]

Edited my above post.

[JorisofHolland]

About the Balrog generals: there was an infantry version (at least in TATW 2.0) in modeldb, I used that one as bodyguard for the OotMM faction and it worked. I don't get it why you would use the elephant version, as it has crappy animations, often not triggering at all (at least in the vanilla version, which I tested a while, and the elephant version didn't fight after the charge). If you could just scale down both model and animation, wouldn't that be perfect? (maybe I missed something, though, as to why you won't use the infantry version)

[Ellin Athinaios]

I did something else, I used the balrog_general entry in modeldb (which is also infantry) as a battle model for an OotMM general in descr_strat, and added a cave troll bodyguard. It worked, no CTD, though the Balrog's feet were under the ground and animations were a bit off. So I guess it's just an animations problem, and the Balrog's size should be changed to that of the trolls.

[alreadyded]

"But like I said before you need to make them infantry units (which will require some reanimating), which sucks because even if they are huge, the game still treats them as small and they act and react as such. Meaning they react to every little hit and would be useless so large. Better of just keeping them mounts if you want them to be big."

Well I did say you could do it if you want to redo the animations for the models... As long as ANY model has the general animations it should work, you can even give mounts this animation, but they just stand there in battle. But there is the "hit" problem with infantry class units. Every time someone hits them (which due to there size and radius will be far more often) the unit stumbles or something (because they are infantry), meaning they will be taking hits constantly (stumbling) and never giving them. Did you try fighting the whole battle to see how it works out? So basically they will be high hit point punching bags I think, but I am not sure.

But Glaurung has to be a mount general as he definitely won't work as infantry, plus he has a ranged attack so that will cause a CTD. But I think he should be a one man unit with no bodyguard anyway.

[JorisofHolland]

I did something else, I used the balrog_general entry in modeldb (which is also infantry) as a battle model for an OotMM general in descr_strat, and added a cave troll bodyguard. It worked, no CTD, though the Balrog's feet were under the ground and animations were a bit off. So I guess it's just an animations problem, and the Balrog's size should be changed to that of the trolls.

Nah, you just didn't fix enough entries. I got it to work, even posted screenshots of it back when I did.

"But like I said before you need to make them infantry units (which will require some reanimating), which sucks because even if they are huge, the game still treats them as small and they act and react as such. Meaning they react to every little hit and would be useless so large. Better of just keeping them mounts if you want them to be big."

Well I did say you could do it if you want to redo the animations for the models... As long as ANY model has the general animations it should work, you can even give mounts this animation, but they just stand there in battle. But there is the "hit" problem with infantry class units. Every time someone hits them (which due to there size and radius will be far more often) the unit stumbles or something (because they are infantry), meaning they will be taking hits constantly (stumbling) and never giving them. Did you try fighting the whole battle to see how it works out? So basically they will be high hit point punching bags I think, but I am not sure.

But Glaurung has to be a mount general as he definitely won't work as infantry, plus he has a ranged attack so that will cause a CTD. But I think he should be a one man unit with no bodyguard anyway.

You're probably right, I didn't fully test it and what you say makes sense. But how will the mount-version behave in battle?

[Ellin Athinaios]

Nah, you just didn't fix enough entries. I got it to work, even posted screenshots of it back when I did.

What entries?

[Squeaks]

Quikie here my freinds...just finished this off in 5 secs of normaility

[glassakias]

Quikie here my freinds...just finished this off in 5 secs of normaility

it's good for a logo, if you add a "Team" under the "WotS" inscription it would be perfect as a disclaimer. i like its simplicity (and the fact that it didn't take you long to create it)

edit: is this the sims diamond recoloured?

[Ngugi]

@ Squeaks

You might should move the logo a little, little bit to the right? The black part on that side is otherwise to big?
have to agree with glassakias about the good simplicity and cleaness

[Hero of the West]

very nice

i would love it even more to be centred a bit more like ngugi says and perhaps somekind of golden border around the black