View Poll Results: Which should be the start date: 455, at the start of Dagor Bragollach, when all the Noldor princes were still alive and strong, or 468, when the Union of Maedhros was formed, the time of Húrin and Túrin, for a harder and closer to lore campaign?

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • 455, start of Dagor Bragollach

    17 80.95%
  • 468, Union of Maedhros

    4 19.05%
Page 68 of 150 FirstFirst ... 184358596061626364656667686970717273747576777893118 ... LastLast
Results 1,341 to 1,360 of 2996

Thread: War of the Silmarils

  1. #1341
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    13,836

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Yeah, but couldn't there be some way where the princesses cannot propose that and it cannot be proposed?
    I'd rather have princesses marrying "devilishly handsome" orcs than not having princesses.
    I have an idea. Create a way that the orcs cannot be turned by marrying princesses by way of a trait that makes it so that princesses will always fail if they try.

  2. #1342
    Colonel Cleg McLeg's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cardiff or Wrexham, in Wales, depending on the time of year.
    Posts
    569

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    I haven't got the foggiest idea whether that would work or not, but that sounds like a great idea!

  3. #1343
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    To jump to another question; the map.

    1) How much space it is for each faction to expand? I mean, if this is post Nírnaeth Arnoediad, mostly south* will be "bandit" territory?

    2) In the north it will be crowded. What could you make out of Ard-galen, its really not quite natural to make lots of regions out of a dead plain?

    3) Won't the elves and edain be forced to fight each other quite a bit to be able to advance their border, rather than Morgoth who cant have that many regions?
    Or maybe the dwarves, who still are enemies of the dark lord...
    Maybe a good thing, since there are conflict between the royal houses of elves and the other races but could risk to harm the feeling of that there is two opposing sides?

    4) I assume this will be handled trough an evil massive onslaught since it will begin with Dagor Bragollach, so that as good you will at first try to stay alive while the enemy will gain territory for good guys to take back as a big but dangerous smorgasboard?
    But I belived you would not get Fingolfin? :'(

    Edit: *and east then.
    Last edited by Ngugi; February 11, 2011 at 04:44 PM.

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  4. #1344

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    you could go to faction relations for the edain and the elves and dwarves and make them like 600 each so they never fight each other

  5. #1345
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    1) How much space it is for each faction to expand? I mean, if this is post Nírnaeth Arnoediad, mostly south* will be "bandit" territory?
    Meant PRE, not post of course

    Quote Originally Posted by gittany View Post
    you could go to faction relations for the edain and the elves and dwarves and make them like 600 each so they never fight each other
    Did you mean that I could or the mod maker's?
    To change it by hand could be done, but it is interesting to know what the dveelopers had in mind for/with their creation

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  6. #1346
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Europe, Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,547

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    1) How much space it is for each faction to expand? I mean, if this is post Nírnaeth Arnoediad, mostly south* will be "bandit" territory?
    There will be reasonable space to expand. The mod is post Dagor Bragollach, not post Nirnaeth Arnoediad, by the way.

    2) In the north it will be crowded. What could you make out of Ard-galen, its really not quite natural to make lots of regions out of a dead plain?
    Various orc settlements and such will be there, I imagine. It won't be just one region for sure.

    3) Won't the elves and edain be forced to fight each other quite a bit to be able to advance their border, rather than Morgoth who cant have that many regions?
    Or maybe the dwarves, who still are enemies of the dark lord...
    Maybe a good thing, since there are conflict between the royal houses of elves and the other races but could risk to harm the feeling of that there is two opposing sides?
    There will be unbreakable alliances (allies wont be able to attack each other, unless they end the alliance with a diplomat first), so there won't be such problems.

    4) I assume this will be handled trough an evil massive onslaught since it will begin with Dagor Bragollach, so that as good you will at first try to stay alive while the enemy will gain territory for good guys to take back as a big but dangerous smorgasboard?
    But I belived you would not get Fingolfin? :'(
    Not sure if I understand what you're saying, but yeah, Fingolfin will just recently have died by the start of the mod. (And it's only fair if you think about it, all the three major Noldor lords are absent in the mod - Feanor and Fingolfin dead, Finarfin far away in Valinor )

  7. #1347
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    There will be reasonable space to expand. The mod is post Dagor Bragollach, not post Nirnaeth Arnoediad, by the way.

    (...)

    There will be unbreakable alliances (allies wont be able to attack each other, unless they end the alliance with a diplomat first), so there won't be such problems.

    (...)

    Not sure if I understand what you're saying, but yeah, Fingolfin will just recently have died by the start of the mod. (And it's only fair if you think about it, all the three major Noldor lords are absent in the mod - Feanor and Fingolfin dead, Finarfin far away in Valinor )
    Yeah, I saw my own fault about post and pre

    Between just some factions or all "good" ones? Edain and Bórs people did not fancy each other. Sindar and dwarves should have a shoot at least, for example

    About the last question, I read from last page that you began the game 17 years before Turins birth, witch would had been just before Dagor Bragollach. Then that was not correct, so my idea fell short. Just meant that if Morgoth was about to begin Bragollach, thus beginning with massive forces (but no economy at that time I assume) he would take so many areas that the good factions would get some new options to take (back) from Morgoth - your allieds old ones.

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  8. #1348
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Europe, Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,547

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Between just some factions or all "good" ones? Edain and Bórs people did not fancy each other. Sindar and dwarves should have a shoot at least, for example
    Not everyone will start as allies - only those that are allies in the book as well.

    About the last question, I read from last page that you began the game 17 years before Turins birth, witch would had been just before Dagor Bragollach. Then that was not correct, so my idea fell short. Just meant that if Morgoth was about to begin Bragollach, thus beginning with massive forces (but no economy at that time I assume) he would take so many areas that the good factions would get some new options to take (back) from Morgoth - your allieds old ones.
    Yep that was incorrect. The mod starts at the year 462 (when Hurin becomes lord of Dor-lomin, Sauron has occupied Tol Sirion, the Easterlings have started arriving, Fingolfin is dead and Finrod still alive - basically just before the events of Beren and Luthien).

  9. #1349
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    3,779

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cleg McLeg View Post
    Wouldn't you still have human or elvish princesses marrying orcish generals though?
    No. Go play vanilla and try to marry your princess to the Moors. You will not succeed as you don't have the option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    Exactly, which is why we shouldn't have princesses.
    Well I think we should. This lore-mod (don't remember who made it) also did so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Agamemnon♔ View Post
    Yeah, but couldn't there be some way where the princesses cannot propose that and it cannot be proposed?
    I'd rather have princesses marrying "devilishly handsome" orcs than not having princesses.
    I have an idea. Create a way that the orcs cannot be turned by marrying princesses by way of a trait that makes it so that princesses will always fail if they try.
    You could boost loyalty for Orcs, but that would remove that factor from the faction and not garrantee succes. And it's not necessary.
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  10. #1350
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    3,779

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    I ran some tests to prove my right about the princess case. Playing both the HRE and the Turks, my princess engages in diplomacy on turn one:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As you can see, no option to marry the heir.

    Now we check the family tree of the Turks:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The heir is certainly available for marriage.

    This all is caused by the Turks not having princesses (as controled by descr_sm_factions). Changing the Human/Elven factions to have princesses, but keep the Orcs and Dwarves at disabled, there won't be 'wrong' marriages.
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  11. #1351
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Europe, Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,547

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisofHolland View Post
    Well I think we should. This lore-mod (don't remember who made it) also did so.
    Yep, Aikanar's Lore mod. And since you proved there won't be a problem, I agree we should include them.

  12. #1352

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Yea but they will still be able to marry outside of the diplomacy screen, such as when generals are "bribed with sex" on the campaign map no? Plus you will have good and evil Men marrying each other's princess, and Elves of all kinds. Plus Elves and Men only married twice in the books, both of which were really big deals. If I were you I wouldn't worry about this princess stuff until the mod is ready and you can actually test it in your game, not in vanilla.
    Last edited by alreadyded; February 13, 2011 at 06:25 PM.

  13. #1353
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,687

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    Yea but they will still be able to marry outside of the diplomacy screen, such as when generals are "bribed with sex" on the campaign map no? Plus you will have good and evil Men marrying each other's princess, and Elves of all kinds. Plus Elves and Men only married twice in the books, both of which were really big deals. If I were you I wouldn't worry about this princess stuff until the mod is ready and you can actually test it in your game, not in vanilla.
    Good and evil Men getting married is no big fuss, marridge have always been a political tool, I assume even among edian - but the elven-Men-marridge would seem a bit strange, if one care about lore and Beren and Luthiens story.
    Could just be made an sub-mod by someone perhaps?

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  14. #1354
    JorisofHolland's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    3,779

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    Yea but they will still be able to marry outside of the diplomacy screen, such as when generals are "bribed with sex" on the campaign map no?
    Didn't test it recently, but I've never succeed in establishing a dynasty that included Muslim characters with princesses, so it's probably not possible either. The other stuff I don't care about, all makes sense (we could lower chances of succes, though).

    Good and evil Men getting married is no big fuss, marridge have always been a political tool, I assume even among edian - but the elven-Men-marridge would seem a bit strange, if one care about lore and Beren and Luthiens story.
    Could just be made an sub-mod by someone perhaps?
    Maybe.
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  15. #1355
    Kiliç Alì's Avatar Domesticus
    Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,114

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    @alreadyded: Well, I checked "Bribe with Sex" playing with Bizantins... used toggle_fow, then selecting my princess. If I clicked over an European settlement with single General (poor, alone, sad general ) the marriage option was avaiable, but not with a tukish, moor or egyptian settlement. went on for some turns, neither with generals in armies... so I think those factions cannot have princess marriages.

    @ngugi: in the books, in effects, Tolkien talks about marriages between men and alves and says they were 3 (Beren and Lutien, Idril and Tuor, Aragorn and Arwen) but I'm pretty sure he's forgotting sombody... I remember there is a story between an elf and a man behind Dol Amroth, for example.
    In fact, he's talking about Eldar... he says nothing about Avari, Sindar or Nandor.

    maybe could be given elven princess a trait, f.e. "of noldor blood", wich means low probabilities of marriage with a non-elf faction general? Man-Elf marriages would be rare - and so, more "important"!

  16. #1356
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    I remember there is a story between an elf and a man behind Dol Amroth, for example.





    Those two where both elves. It's about king Amroth of Lothlorien and hes bride Nimrodel. She got lost in the white mountines and he drowned. I think thats all, but i'll check

  17. #1357
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Europe, Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,547

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    Those two where both elves. It's about king Amroth of Lothlorien and hes bride Nimrodel. She got lost in the white mountines and he drowned. I think thats all, but i'll check
    No, he means Imrazôr the Númenórean and the elf-maid Mithrellas, one of Nimrodel's companions. They founded the line of the princes of Dol Amroth.

  18. #1358
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Ah, OK... My bad...

  19. #1359
    Kiliç Alì's Avatar Domesticus
    Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,114

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    You're right, Ellin Athinaios. And another example is between Dior and Nimloth...
    please forgive me if i'm not precise, but i've read the books lot time ago and don't remember names or places... only some events...

  20. #1360

    Default Re: War of the Silmarils - Preview of Gondolin!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiliç Alì View Post
    In fact, he's talking about Eldar... he says nothing about Avari, Sindar or Nandor.
    Luthein was not Eldar, Thingol and all his heirs were Sindar.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •