War of the Silmarils

[Beorn]

The published Silmarillion doesn't include the later changes that the Proffessor had made to his legendarium. The part with him getting burned in Drengist belongs to a decade or more later that the published Quenta Silmarillion story.

[Ellin Athinaios]

Yeh that's a controversial subject.
Tolkien stated in some places that Amras was burned in the Swan Ships in Drengist but in the Silmarillion and his other known writings, Amras was slain in the Third Kinslaying at the Mouths of Sirion with his brother Amrod.

So what should we take as canon?

@Laiquendi Yeah a combination of spear/javelin/bow sounds perfect.

Edit: I have to agree that a Son of Feanor being burnt by accident sounds a bit silly... but I don't mind, since we can't have all of them listed as brothers.

[Beorn]

Which is the proposed starting date of the mod?

To me, the ideal would be just before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad...

[Valandur]

Which is the proposed starting date of the mod?

To me, the ideal would be just before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad...

Joris says 462, 13 years before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad iirc.

[Ellin Athinaios]

I suggest after the Dagor Bragollach, when Finrod was still alive.

[Beorn]

I suggest after the Dagor Bragollach, when Finrod was still alive.

But then, the Easterling factions will be off, and Beren should be added too. A fairly difficult task

[Ellin Athinaios]

But then, the Easterling factions will be off, and Beren should be added too. A fairly difficult task

The Easterling factions could be emergent as well, right? And the story of Beren and Luthien could add some interesting yes/no events in the campaign, I think Joris has some ideas about it.

But nothing's certain yet, of course.

[Beorn]

I see

[Valandur]

I think 462 is an ideal time. Its the year before the Beren and Luthien event happened so Finrod is still alive and the Easterlings would've arrived. And it would give the armies of Beleriand 7 years to heal after the Dagor Braggolach, after the Nirnaeth would basically nearly destroy the Factions of Finarfin and Fingolfin, The Faction of the Sons of Feanor won't have any land, the Falas was destroyed the year after the Nirnaeth so.... It'd just give Morgoth complete dominance over Beleriand, even though thats how it happened, it just wouldn't suit the campaign.

But Joris has to confirm a lot of things before we can fully decide with the factions, units and events.

[Beorn]

I told just before the Nirnaeth.


In this case:
People of Hador--> Dor Lomin,
People of Haleth-->Brethil
House of Fingolfin-->Hithlum, Gondolin,
House of Finarfin--> Nargothrond, Minas Tirith
Laiquendi-->Ossiriand
Dwarves-->Ered Luin
House of Feanor-->north Eastern Passes to Beleriand from Taur-nu-Fuin to Thargelion + Ramdall
Falathrim-->Brithombar, Eglarest, Isle of Balar
Doriath-->Doriath.
Estolad -->???
Easterlings in Dorthonion, area east of Nan-Elmoth

[Ellin Athinaios]

In this case:
People of Hador--> Dor Lomin,
People of Haleth-->Brethil
House of Fingolfin-->Hithlum, Gondolin,
House of Finarfin--> Nargothrond, Minas Tirith
Laiquendi-->Ossiriand
Dwarves-->Ered Luin
House of Feanor-->north Eastern Passes to Beleriand from Taur-nu-Fuin to Thargelion + Ramdall
Falathrim-->Brithombar, Eglarest, Isle of Balar
Doriath-->Doriath.
Estolad -->???
Easterlings in Dorthonion, area east of Nan-Elmoth

Sounds great. There could also be AOR/mercenary units of the House of Beor in Dorthonion for the good factions. And who's in Estolad?

[Beorn]

A mixed people of the House of Beor and Hador remained in Estolad till the end of the 1st Age.
Also, we could add the Woodmen of the Forests of Teiglin into the People of Haleth

[Ellin Athinaios]

A mixed people of the House of Beor and Hador remained in Estolad till the end of the 1st Age.
Also, we could add the Woodmen of the Forests of Teiglin into the People of Haleth

Maybe those mixed people should be part of the House of Hador faction then?

@ Woodmen, we could and we should.

[Beorn]

Lorewise, they hadn't any contact with the People of Hador, and also they didn't take part in the perils of the wars in the North

Should the Hadorians be vassals to Fingolfin?

[Ellin Athinaios]

Lorewise, they hadn't any contact with the People of Hador, and also they didn't take part in the perils of the wars in the North

Should the Hadorians be vassals to Fingolfin?

I think they should be good allies, not vassals. They can't start as vassals anyway (as we saw with Dunland).

About the mixed people, should they be rebels?

[Beorn]

We can make them a faction on their own, but an passive one

[Ellin Athinaios]

We can make them a faction on their own, but an passive one

Sounds good.. a micro-faction. So we have 12 factions this way (if the Easterlings are 2 factions)

[Beorn]

Sounds good.. a micro-faction. So we have 12 factions this way (if the Easterlings are 2 factions)

We can certainly have till 15 without any problem

[Elphir of Dol Amroth]

My bad. But I'm pretty sure Orodreth is the brother of Finrod. They are both sons of Finarfin as far as I know.

He was in the Silmarillion, but as with a lot of things in the Sil, Cristopher used older versions of his father instead of newer ones. With Orodreth this was the case for example, so according to Tolkiens latest ideas he should be a nephew of Finrod.

Dor Caranthir as well?

Depends on the starting date of this mod, shortly after the Bragorlach than probably not, but just before the Battle of the Unnumbered Tears it was probably already reconquered by Meadhros, he wouldn't leave for Angbad with the enemy to flank him from behind.

Ladros = Dor-lómin, right? Dorthonion and Tol Sirion were overrun by that time.

No, Ladros is a fief of Dorthonion in the north east of that country. It's the area ruled by the descendants of Beor.

Enough men for a new faction? And to which house should it belong?

Depends on the starting date of this mod, around the time of the Dagor Bragorlach the men of Estolad could probably still count as a faction of its own. But if you start it around the Battle of the Unnumbered Tears than I think that the population wouldn't really count for a completely new faction anymore, unless you do a DAC like mod of course.

[Ellin Athinaios]

He was in the Silmarillion, but as with a lot of things in the Sil, Cristopher used older versions of his father instead of newer ones. With Orodreth this was the case for example, so according to Tolkiens latest ideas he should be a nephew of Finrod

Yeah, that's how I chose to have him in my family trees mod.

Depends on the starting date of this mod, around the time of the Dagor Bragorlach the men of Estolad could probably still count as a faction of its own. But if you start it around the Battle of the Unnumbered Tears than I think that the population wouldn't really count for a completely new faction anymore, unless you do a DAC like mod of course.

Probably after the Dagor Bragollach. So the men of Estolad could be a micro-faction with Beorian and Hadorian characteristics.