War of the Silmarils

[Ellin Athinaios]

Ok I've got a blank map of which I can mark the settlements but sadly the only photo editing program I have is Paint. Anyway I can add writing to the photo without it being all over the place? I'm not to good with photos.

There is an option to do that in Paint, you simply adjust the size of the text, and make it transparent. Give it a go.

[Valandur]

There is an option to do that in Paint, you simply adjust the size of the text, and make it transparent. Give it a go.

I have a very basic version of paint and I can't find that option.
Anyway, its nearly 1am, I'm off to bed, goodnight all!

[Beorn]

Always lore, and I can code to some (limited) degree.

As for TRoA, it's going slowly, but it's progressing

[JorisofHolland]

Yes, I think he was wearing it all the time, and indeed it was a great burden even for him. The only time he didn't wear the crown with the Silmarils was at his duel with Fingolfin.

Should he wear it in battle, if he did not wear it when he fought his only duel? I'm pretty sure that's the only time Morgoth did some fighting against the Children of Iluvatar.

Edit: Tar-Elmar, you're Beorn, right?

[Ellin Athinaios]

Should he wear it in battle, if he did not wear it when he fought his only duel? I'm pretty sure that's the only time Morgoth did some fighting against the Children of Iluvatar.

That's a good point... Well I guess he probably wouldn't wear it in battle, he would probably lock the Silmarils deep in Angband. But I think it would look better (and cooler) if he wears it in the mod.

[Skeleton Of The West]

Edit: Tar-Elmar, you're Beorn, right?

Yes he is .

[JorisofHolland]

I've been checking out FRoMe, there are some really nice units there. The last three archers (Mirkwood Ranger, Woodland Nobles and Elvenking's guard) are great and would do well for the Laiquendi, except they wield iron blades, I don't think that's very accurate.

The Ered Luin units are nice, too, but a bit too 'blue' for my taste. I don't know if there's any lore behind them, but they would be nice anyway.

Among the Dunlending's are quite a few units that would do well for the Haladin and perhaps the House of Dor-lómin as well. The noble units are to heavily armoured for First Age, though. Shield-wielding units require a reskin of the shield.

[Ellin Athinaios]

I've been checking out FRoMe, there are some really nice units there. The last three archers (Mirkwood Ranger, Woodland Nobles and Elvenking's guard) are great and would do well for the Laiquendi.

From the Mirkwood units, those three that you mentioned plus the Woodland Warriors would be perfect for the Sindar of Doriath, I think. Also maybe the Lórien Sentries and Spearmen from the Lórien faction, and of course a light archer unit.

except they wield iron blades, I don't think that's very accurate.

They didn't have iron blades in the First Age? What did they have, bronze?

The Ered Luin units are nice, too, but a bit too 'blue' for my taste. I don't know if there's any lore behind them, but they would be nice anyway.

We could use a mix of vanilla units and Ered Luin units for the Dwarves. From the FRoME units, I think if we take the Ered Luin Nobles and give them the large two-handed axes of the Guardians of Belegost (instead of the hammers they have now) they would be perfect for the dwarven army of Azaghâl as described in the Fifth Battle with their masked helmets and all. (Azaghâl was king of Belegost at that time, right?) Also the Golden Hammerguard could be used (and these two are not so blue either).

From vanilla most of the units could be used, and especially those wearing a mask (Dragonslayers and Khazad Guard).

Among the Dunlending's are quite a few units that would do well for the Haladin and perhaps the House of Dor-lómin as well. The noble units are to heavily armoured for First Age, though.

I agree. And more units could be taken from Dale, or even from the new Eriador.

By the way, will Ents be included?

[JorisofHolland]

From the Mirkwood units, those three that you mentioned plus the Woodland Warriors would be perfect for the Sindar of Doriath, I think. Also maybe the Lórien Sentries and Spearmen from the Lórien faction, and of course a light archer unit.



They didn't have iron blades in the First Age? What did they have, bronze?

I am talking about the Green Elves (Laiquendi) of Ossiriand. I'm not sure about it, but I think they disliked iron and other wood-cuting stuff. Instead, they had become masters in working wood.

We could use a mix of vanilla units and Ered Luin units for the Dwarves. From the FRoME units, I think if we take the Ered Luin Nobles and give them the large two-handed axes of the Guardians of Belegost (instead of the hammers they have now) they would be perfect for the dwarven army of Azaghâl as described in the Fifth Battle with their masked helmets and all. (Azaghâl was king of Belegost at that time, right?) Also the Golden Hammerguard could be used (and these two are not so blue either).

From vanilla most of the units could be used, and especially those wearing a mask (Dragonslayers and Khazad Guard).

Sounds good. I'll have to work out their roster later, but I want to relax a while so that'll be tomorrow/the day after tomorrow.

Also, they will need a family tree. But that's your area of expertise, isn't it?
Another problem: who should be the faction leader of the Dwarven faction?

I agree. And more units could be taken from Dale, or even from the new Eriador.

If I have the time, I'll take a look at it. The Houses of the Noldor are fine with the vanilla High Elves roster?

By the way, will Ents be included?

I don't know. There were ents in Beleriand (when Treebeard sings a song, he says he had wandered through Ossiriand) but I don't know when, and I don't know if they took part in the battles. Not mentioned, as far as I know.

[Seleukos_I.]

I don't know. There were ents in Beleriand (when Treebeard sings a song, he says he had wandered through Ossiriand) but I don't know when, and I don't know if they took part in the battles. Not mentioned, as far as I know.

Ents helped the Green Elves killing the rest of the dwarves who destroyed Menegroth.

[JorisofHolland]

Then we'll make them recruitable for the Green Elves, but with a low replenisment rate. Thanks for the info.

[Ellin Athinaios]

I am talking about the Green Elves (Laiquendi) of Ossiriand. I'm not sure about it, but I think they disliked iron and other wood-cuting stuff. Instead, they had become masters in working wood.

Ok now I see - yes the Green Elves should be more natural/wood oriented. That could be fixed if we reskinned their weapons, I think. But in any case the elves from FRoME that are equipped with axes should probably be with the Sindar of Doriath.

Also, they will need a family tree. But that's your area of expertise, isn't it?

Yes, I'll gladly handle the family trees.

A problem could be the Sons of Fëanor - how many of them were still alive? There is a limit of 4 children per parents in the game engine, so we can't have more than 4 listed as brothers in the family tree.

Another problem: who should be the faction leader of the Dwarven faction?

Azaghâl, in Belegost.

If I have the time, I'll take a look at it. The Houses of the Noldor are fine with the vanilla High Elves roster?

At least for the first version, yes. All the Eldar units, and the Warriors of Mithlond and Elven Nobles. And they could of course be reskinned, if necessary. The new Smiths of Eregion from Aikanár's Lore mod could also be used.

I don't know. There were ents in Beleriand (when Treebeard sings a song, he says he had wandered through Ossiriand) but I don't know when, and I don't know if they took part in the battles. Not mentioned, as far as I know.

Like Seleukos said, they took part at least in one battle. Maybe they could be AOR or mercenaries for the elves at Ossiriand?

[Valandur]

Highland Rabble for Laiquendi, reskin them, make em look pretty and give them clubs.
Nah not really.

The Laiquendi only ever really used Bows but maybe you can give them heavy oak staffs or just typical clubs that look a bit more elegant in design.
With the Sindar, they were taught how to make weapons by the Dwarves so they would be armed quite well but wouldn't have any cavalry as Doriath is a forest.

At the Sons of Feanor, all 7 were still alive after the Dagor Braggolach, though all of them had lost their lands except Maedhros. If you have to limit the sons, I'd say keep Maglor, Celegorm, Maedhros and Curufin as out of all the brothers, more is known about them and they are more involved with the history of Middle Earth more than the other 3 brothers. Anyone know what happen to Maglor at the end of the first age? Curufin, Celegorm and Caranthir were slain in the Kinslaying of Doriath, Amrod and Amras in kinslaying of Sirion and Maedhros committed suicide after the War of Wrath, it only says Maglor wandered the shores of Middle Earth singing about the sorrows of the Silmarils.

The Ents took part in the Battle of Doriath sort of, when the Dwarves won they were ambushed by Beren and the Green Elves at Sarh Athras, even though Beren slew the Dwarven cheiftan, some escaped and tried to climb over Mount Dolmed to reach Nogrod but the Ents killed the rest of them. So they did participate in a battle, but not against Morgoth.

[Ellin Athinaios]

The Laiquendi only ever really used Bows but maybe you can give them heavy oak staffs or just typical clubs that look a bit more elegant in design.

Agreed, the Laiquendi should be a simple archer-folk.

With the Sindar, they were taught how to make weapons by the Dwarves so they would be armed quite well but wouldn't have any cavalry as Doriath is a forest.

Agreed, Thingol's armoury was full of weapons made for them by the Dwarves.

At the Sons of Feanor, all 7 were still alive after the Dagor Braggolach, though all of them had lost their lands except Maedhros. If you have to limit the sons, I'd say keep Maglor, Celegorm, Maedhros and Curufin as out of all the brothers, more is known about them and they are more involved with the history of Middle Earth more than the other 3 brothers.

Perfect - Maglor, Celegorm, Maedhros and Curufin were the ones I had chosen to keep in my family trees mod. But what of the other three?

Anyone know what happen to Maglor at the end of the first age? Curufin, Celegorm and Caranthir were slain in the Kinslaying of Doriath, Amrod and Amras in kinslaying of Sirion and Maedhros committed suicide after the War of Wrath, it only says Maglor wandered the shores of Middle Earth singing about the sorrows of the Silmarils.

Noone knows, and that's the beauty of it. I'd say he probably killed himself too, or gave up his life from sorrow and returned to Mandos.

The Ents took part in the Battle of Doriath sort of, when the Dwarves won they were ambushed by Beren and the Green Elves at Sarh Athras, even though Beren slew the Dwarven cheiftan, some escaped and tried to climb over Mount Dolmed to reach Nogrod but the Ents killed the rest of them. So they did participate in a battle, but not against Morgoth.

Yeah, but I'm sure they would if Morgoth reached their forests. I think they should probably be mercenaries in Ossiriand.

[Valandur]

Agreed, the Laiquendi should be a simple archer-folk.

Yes but that would make them quite weak against other well armed factions.

Agreed, Thingol's armoury was full of weapons made for them by the Dwarves.

'But were they ever used? No! Doriath didn't participate in any wars against Morgoth apart from the first battle before the Noldor arrived. Thingol was a selfish idiot who didn't realise the Noldor were the only beings stopping his pretty forest from being burned to the ground.

Perfect - Maglor, Celegorm, Maedhros and Curufin were the ones I had chosen to keep in my family trees mod. But what of the other three?

Make a Feanor 2 as brother of the first Feanor. But both Feanors die on the first turn/

Noone knows, and that's the beauty of it. I'd say he probably killed himself too, or gave up his life from sorrow and returned to Mandos.

Maglor was my favourite out of the Sons of Feanor. But seeing as there is no explanation for what happened to him after that. I'm gonna say he passed back over the sea and lived happily ever after, the end.

Yeah, but I'm sure they would if Morgoth reached their forests. I think they should probably be mercenaries in Ossiriand.

Give them as a unit to the Laiquendi, with only bows the oter factions will shred them but with Ents they won't be as easy to take down.'

My first attempt at trying to quote multiple things, what a mess!

[Ellin Athinaios]

Yes but that would make them quite weak against other well armed factions.

Yes, they were weak(er).

Make a Feanor 2 as brother of the first Feanor. But both Feanors die on the first turn/

I don't really like this idea. I'll see what can be done about it...

Give them as a unit to the Laiquendi, with only bows the oter factions will shred them but with Ents they won't be as easy to take down.'

Perhaps. Though it's not yet certain if the Laiquendi will be a faction on their own. I think they should, and it doesn't matter if they're weak - they could be a micro-faction.

My first attempt at trying to quote multiple things, what a mess!

No worries mate.

[Beorn]

I would give to the Laiquendi staffs, in the form of spears with wooden tip.

Also, I would put all the remaining 6 sons of Feanor in it.

[Valandur]

I would give to the Laiquendi staffs, in the form of spears with wooden tip.

Also, I would put all the remaining 6 sons of Feanor in it.

Spears! I totally forgot spears! And maybe Javelins as well.
6? There were still 7 after the Braggolach. Medieval 2 can only support 4 children per person so we can only have 4 unless someone derives a spectacular plan which would allow us to add all 7

[Beorn]

Spears! I totally forgot spears! And maybe Javelins as well.
6? There were still 7 after the Braggolach. Medieval 2 can only support 4 children per person so we can only have 4 unless someone derives a spectacular plan which would allow us to add all 7

Yep, javelins would work.
Also, combinations of these weapons, spear, bow, javelin would work.

One of the Twins was burned with the ships in Drengist, by mistake.

[Valandur]

Yep, javelins would work.
Also, combinations of these weapons, spear, bow, javelin would work.

One of the Twins was burned with the ships in Drengist, by mistake.

Yeh that's a controversial subject.
Tolkien stated in some places that Amras was burned in the Swan Ships in Drengist but in the Silmarillion and his other known writings, Amras was slain in the Third Kinslaying at the Mouths of Sirion with his brother Amrod.

I guess its up to Joris to decide. But either way it doesn't bother me, though I don't like the thought of a Son of Feanor being burned by accident/ lol.