View Poll Results: Which should be the start date: 455, at the start of Dagor Bragollach, when all the Noldor princes were still alive and strong, or 468, when the Union of Maedhros was formed, the time of Húrin and Túrin, for a harder and closer to lore campaign?

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  • 455, start of Dagor Bragollach

    17 80.95%
  • 468, Union of Maedhros

    4 19.05%
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Thread: War of the Silmarils

  1. #61
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    I like where this is going, I think it has great potential!

    I was thinking, about the units, we can easily use most of the models of the High Elves for the Noldor (even the new Eregion Smiths), and some of the FRoME Lórien and Mirkwood units for the Sindar. The same for the Dwarves, and maybe some Dale and FRoME Dunland units could be used for men. All with proper permissions, of course.

    For Angband we could use Mordor orcs and trolls (as well as OotMM cavetrolls), and we already have the Balrogs. All that is left now is to create new models for dragons (it's possible, since dragons didn't fly yet at that time, but the animations will be tricky), as well as werewolves - iirc there were lots of werewolves in Morgoth's armies.

    A suggestion, what do you think about making this playable for small size? That would enable us to have one-man-units possible, for dragons and balrogs, and especially for Glaurung and Morgoth and maybe other heroes. Morgoth should definitely be playable, though probably stationed in Angband, without movement points. I think there's a model for Sauron in development, so maybe that could be used for Morgoth (if we gave him the iron crown with the Silmarils, and a hammer instead of a mace).

    Tokus would be the best to make some faction symbols and banners, I think - we know what the banners of all the Noldor looked like, at least, and I think Angband's banner was simply black. And maybe our good Louis Lux could also help with the 2D art, and MBA with some faction intros...

    Now the most important part; did you contact gigantus about the map?
    Last edited by Ellin Athinaios; April 07, 2010 at 06:02 AM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    All that is left now is to create new models for dragons (it's possible, since dragons didn't fly yet at that time, but the animations will be tricky
    for the dragons you could use the greek firethrower from the crusades campaign. it's perfect for this job. after creating some proper model, they will seem as they are really spiting fire. however, in the silmarilion, when morgoth unleashed the first dragon, i think he (it?) was flying and the elves fought with mounted archers to defeat him.

  3. #63

    Default Re: First Age mod

    No, he was crawling and the dwarves fought with axes and metal masks and daggers to defeat him.

    This was Glaurung, the first flying dragons were only unleashed during the war of wrath.

  4. #64
    Valandur's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Yeh Glaurung had no wings.
    Ancalagon was the first winged dragon and was so large that when he feel he broke Thangorodrim.

    The Noldor banner in the FA was blue and silver wasn't it?

  5. #65
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    The Noldor banner in the FA was blue and silver wasn't it?
    There were different banners for the different Houses. This page has some interesting info on them (and even more): http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm

  6. #66
    Valandur's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    There were different banners for the different Houses. This page has some interesting info on them (and even more): http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm
    Ok because I remember it saying in The Silmarillion that when Fingolfin stepped on Middle-Earth the sun rose and he unfurled his banners, blue and silver, or something like that. I'm not sure what the banner of Angband was but plain black is a bit boring, how bout an Iron Crown, with the silmarils as a focal point in the foreground and 3 tall mountains representing Thangorodrim in the background. The crown can be greyish-black, the mountains can be pitch black and the sky can be dark red.

  7. #67
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    Ok because I remember it saying in The Silmarillion that when Fingolfin stepped on Middle-Earth the sun rose and he unfurled his banners, blue and silver, or something like that.
    Yeah, the banner of the stars.

    I'm not sure what the banner of Angband was but plain black is a bit boring, how bout an Iron Crown, with the silmarils as a focal point in the foreground and 3 tall mountains representing Thangorodrim in the background. The crown can be greyish-black, the mountains can be pitch black and the sky can be dark red.
    About Morgoth, from the link I presented, which I agree with:

    A common denomination of the heraldry of the two Dark Lords and their followers is the preference of black. When Morgoth slew Fingolfin, his shield was "sable unblazoned" and his armour was black. The lack of any charge is not only fitting for the personification of Darkness, but also hints at Morgoth's nihilistic disposition.

    I wouldn't agree with anything other than pure black for the flag of Morgoth.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    Yeah, the banner of the stars.



    About Morgoth, from the link I presented, which I agree with:

    A common denomination of the heraldry of the two Dark Lords and their followers is the preference of black. When Morgoth slew Fingolfin, his shield was "sable unblazoned" and his armour was black. The lack of any charge is not only fitting for the personification of Darkness, but also hints at Morgoth's nihilistic disposition.

    I wouldn't agree with anything other than pure black for the flag of Morgoth.
    Yes, I guess so. I can't really imagine Morgoth having a flag with anything other than black. Sauron's banner was a Red Eye though.

  9. #69
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    Yes, I guess so. I can't really imagine Morgoth having a flag with anything other than black. Sauron's banner was a Red Eye though.
    Yeah, but still red on black. And even the banner of Minas Morgul was the skull-like moon on black.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Will the Easterling Faction have the Middle Earth Rhun banner? The serpent one?

  11. #71
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    Will the Easterling Faction have the Middle Earth Rhun banner? The serpent one?
    The Serpent banner is actually the banner of the Southrons of Harad, so I guess not.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    The Serpent banner is actually the banner of the Southrons of Harad, so I guess not.
    Really? I always thought it was Rhun. What was theirs then? And what could the Edain have as a banner? Falas should be like a grey ship on a blue horizon or something to do with *sailing to the west, shipwright, ocean* stuff.

  13. #73
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    And what could the Edain have as a banner? Falas should be like a grey ship on a blue horizon or something to do with *sailing to the west, shipwright, ocean* stuff.
    In the link I posted, if you scroll down, there are the banners of the Edain of the First Age as well:

    http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm

    As for Falas, I guess an elven swanship would probably do.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Sign me in guys

    In what can I help?

  15. #75
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Tar-Elmar View Post
    Sign me in guys

    In what can I help?
    Lore is always useful.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    I was thinking, about the units, we can easily use most of the models of the High Elves for the Noldor (even the new Eregion Smiths), and some of the FRoME Lórien and Mirkwood units for the Sindar. The same for the Dwarves, and maybe some Dale and FRoME Dunland units could be used for men. All with proper permissions, of course.
    I don't know much about armour and weapons used, but I'll check out FRoME. Forgotten Realms of Middle-earth, right?
    For Angband we could use Mordor orcs and trolls (as well as OotMM cavetrolls), and we already have the Balrogs. All that is left now is to create new models for dragons (it's possible, since dragons didn't fly yet at that time, but the animations will be tricky), as well as werewolves - iirc there were lots of werewolves in Morgoth's armies.
    I'm not sure about Morgoth's armies, but it's certainly Sauron used them a lot. That stuff will require a lot of work, though it sounds great. PerhapsCertainly, but later on.
    A suggestion, what do you think about making this playable for small size? That would enable us to have one-man-units possible, for dragons and balrogs, and especially for Glaurung and Morgoth and maybe other heroes. Morgoth should definitely be playable, though probably stationed in Angband, without movement points. I think there's a model for Sauron in development, so maybe that could be used for Morgoth (if we gave him the iron crown with the Silmarils, and a hammer instead of a mace).
    Was he wearing that crown all the time? That seems a heavy burden, even for the mightiest among the Valar. Also, I have the idea that Morgoth is very large, is that rigth? I'll think about small unit scale, but the bodyguard option is also available.
    Now the most important part; did you contact gigantus about the map?
    Not yet. I think it is better if Valandur shows the correct settlement positions first, and then ask him.
    Quote Originally Posted by glassakias View Post
    for the dragons you could use the greek firethrower from the crusades campaign. it's perfect for this job. after creating some proper model, they will seem as they are really spiting fire. however, in the silmarilion, when morgoth unleashed the first dragon, i think he (it?) was flying and the elves fought with mounted archers to defeat him.
    I'm not a modeller and I don't know much about unit related stuff eiter, but that sounds like a good idea.
    BTW: Glaurung was fleeing, rather than flying, after his first appearance. And the Elves couldn't think of a way to kill him and his kin. Túrin is one of the only men who ever killed a dragon. Most others were killed by Ainur, I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    Yes, I guess so. I can't really imagine Morgoth having a flag with anything other than black. Sauron's banner was a Red Eye though.
    I'm not sure the banner of the Red Eye is already 'historical' (sounds better than 'lorical') but it's usefull at least.
    I really dislike the idea of a completly black banner, but I think I'll keep it.

    Tar-Elmar: What can you do?
    The Enemy of Human Souls
    Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
    For Hell had been annexed of late,
    And was a sovereign Southern State.

  17. #77
    Valandur's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Hello Elmar.
    How did the Fall of Arnor mod go? I read the introduction and liked it but I didn't read any further than that.
    I just checked that link and those emblems are quite detailed and .....pretty. I wonder where all this information came from, nevertheless they are very good.

    Tomorrow I'll get a blank map of Beleriand and start marking the settlements.

    With the units, I can't see the Noldor Factions having any weakness in their units apart from maybe their Cavalry. The Green Elves would be completely lacking Cavalry and Melee, and Doriath would be lacking Cavalry. I'm not to sure at all about the Edain but I'm guessing they would lack Heavy Infantry and the Easterlings would probably lack it as well. The Dwarves wouldn't have any Cavalry and few few archers but would have extremely powerful infantry.
    Thats my suggestions on units but they aren't my expertise.
    Last edited by Valandur; April 07, 2010 at 09:11 AM.

  18. #78
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisofHolland View Post
    I don't know much about armour and weapons used, but I'll check out FRoME. Forgotten Realms of Middle-earth, right?
    Yes.

    Was he wearing that crown all the time? That seems a heavy burden, even for the mightiest among the Valar. Also, I have the idea that Morgoth is very large, is that rigth? I'll think about small unit scale, but the bodyguard option is also available.
    Yes, I think he was wearing it all the time, and indeed it was a great burden even for him. The only time he didn't wear the crown with the Silmarils was at his duel with Fingolfin.

    I really dislike the idea of a completly black banner, but I think I'll keep it.
    I think it's the most reasonable choice.

  19. #79
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandur View Post
    I just checked that link and those emblems are quite detailed and .....pretty. I wonder where all this information came from, nevertheless they are very good.
    Check the References at the bottom of the page.

    Edit: Sorry for doublepost...

  20. #80
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    Default Re: First Age mod

    Ok I've got a blank map of which I can mark the settlements but sadly the only photo editing program I have is Paint. Anyway I can add writing to the photo without it being all over the place? I'm not to good with photos.

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