General's Bodyguard and Knights mod for RR/RC Compilation! (Sub-sub-mod proposal)

[Sir Walter]

I know lots of people don't like recruit-able generals so I'll not suggest this as an addition to the main compilation, but I do, and I would like to make a mod where I can recruit them. But(!) I'd like to get rid of their "Exceptional" quality, and script them to be a bit better than the best cavalry of their faction so they can't just dominate battles. For example: English generals the same models and qualities as Miles but 1 higher in Defence Skill, Armour and Attack to represent their elite status. Byzantine/Roman ones would probably still be Athanoi, but I'm not sure.

The exception to this is the Islamic factions, who I'd keep the same but not as good, because their bodyguards were Slavic mercenaries, but script to become the same as Christian Guard, Ghulams and Mamluks as they become available (don't know enough about Khwarezm yet to say what I'd do about them unfortunately...)

I'd also like to implement some other, somewhat simpler changes. I would like to have Mailed Knights and parallel units like Miles recruit-able in Wooden Castles, along with their dismounted counterparts! Feudal Knights and similar units would be recruitable in Castles, but not until the appropriate time (as far as I know, PB has already scripted all that...)

Oh, and it'll be 2tpy, because that's the only way to have proper ageing in the game.

If anybody's interested in helping or teaching me, it'd be nice to have some support as I really can't mod at all.


Edit: General's Bodyguards now recruitable in castles. Other units soon to be available in wooden ones. Just copy into data folder and replace old file, I've attached original EDB if you want to remove changes.

Edit: All stuff done! EDU and EDB attached.

[Maltacus]

Unit strenghts are handled mainly by the EDU, export_description_units text document in the data folder. Just alter whatever statistics you want changed and save. Recruitment is determined mainly by the export_description_buildings document, wherein you add or remove the recruit_pool text strings.
Study the short initial guide in the EDU and the structure for other units or buildings recruitment, for instance the ones whos models you will be using.
Text editing like this is generally the easiest to start with. In the text folder there is a "units" document that handles the descriptions. Edit the text to remove any message of a unit being exceptional or whatever you like. Check out the mod workshop forums, there are some nice guides.

Good luck

[Sir Walter]

Brilliant, I'd already asked in the Mod Workshop and I can start, I just need to reskin the general's bodyguard units to make them look like normal cavalry.

Edit: Taken most of the exceptionality off generals, now to make them recruit-able But I may have broken the EDU, a spare one would be nice

[Souka]

If your thinking about making additional units you can't, this submod is already at the 500 limit. I myself wanted to make governors just like in RS but it did not work out because of the limit so I made generals recruitable as a submod instead. It's outdated now and I plan on updating it on the next rr/rc release but i could update it for this release if you want.

[Sir Walter]

If your thinking about making additional units you can't, this submod is already at the 500 limit. I myself wanted to make governors just like in RS but it did not work out because of the limit so I made generals recruitable as a submod instead. It's outdated now and I plan on updating it on the next rr/rc release but i could update it for this release if you want.

I was thinking of a little script that would improve the general's bodyguard units as better cavalry became available, instead of actual new units

[Souka]

I don't know if it can be done without making a new unit but most likely you will need to make new event trigger or you can use the armor events. But there is already something like that, when plate armor kicks in so does the late bodyguards.

[bɑne]

Oh, and it'll be 2tpy, because that's the only way to have proper ageing in the game.

You might want to consider keeping this seperate. As your primary focus is on changes to

Unit strenghts are handled mainly by the EDU, export_description_units text document in the data folder. Recruitment is determined mainly by the export_description_buildings document, wherein you add or remove the recruit_pool text strings.

there is no need to overcomplicate it. That way you could even make it compatible to a existing or upcoming 2tpy mod...

Edit: Taken most of the exceptionality off generals, now to make them recruit-able But I may have broken the EDU, a spare one would be nice

Backup your files before changing anything and once you have a working version backup that before working on. Potentially saves you a ton of frustration.
Either copy and rename (like filename.txt.original) or if you have Winzip or Winrar you can simply do that by rightclick and create archiv and youll have a nice backup zip or rar in the folder with the same name and everything.

[Maltacus]

To change during time I think the easiest way is different EDUs that you copy and paste into the data folder from some "library" location yourself. AFAIK this is being used in the RR RC compilation. It wont make bodyguards dependent on the cavalry in the CURRENT settlement though, will be the same for all. Just put a different unit model into the bodyguards that reflects the era. Can be a bit tedious if you play many campaigns at once, maybe, since you need to do it yourself...

BTW,
bane_tw, did you mean that I overcomplicate or that I dont?

[bɑne]

BTW,
bane_tw, did you mean that I overcomplicate or that I dont?

You don't. I ment to say that Sir Walter should consider focusing first on what you explained and leave 2tpy aside for now because it could be adressed seperatly. As it is there is enough that can go wrong with EDU and EDB if he is just starting out modding.

[Maltacus]

Thanks for the compliment, bane. And I agree with you, its really overwhelming before you get used to the mass of text and numbers.

[luciferleigh]

didnt realize you couldnt recruit generals anymore, havent played with the new compilation far enough yet to the point where i could recruit generals like in the older versions

i for one actually like being able to recruit generals, specially if for some reason your family members seem to turn out a bit "stupid", but i would tone down their recruitment times a bit more, at one point i could spam a new general in about every 4 turns

one addition i would like to see is the ability to retrain generals in capitals that have the military academy buildings, maybe giving them an additional chevron and/or morale boost

[bɑne]

i for one actually like being able to recruit generals, specially if for some reason your family members seem to turn out a bit "stupid", but i would tone down their recruitment times a bit more, at one point i could spam a new general in about every 4 turns

What kind of average general output is expected?
The AI tends to screw up their family trees with adoptions so having them recruitable might help against "men of the hour" royal families causing the AI factions to lose their bloodline traits early in the campaign.
My thought here is that a recruited general is not in the family tree but counts (hopefully) in the ratio of generals to owned settlements which is what influences men of the hour appearances.
Question is how likely it would be that recruited generals won't join the family tree through fighting battles (and getting adopted after that). Would be a nice side effect if it doesnt backfire.

one addition i would like to see is the ability to retrain generals in capitals that have the military academy buildings, maybe giving them an additional chevron and/or morale boost

With the AIs inability to effectivly retrain this would most likely only benefit the player - I'd actually prefer a bonus chevron to AI generals over that although it is a tempting thought. Limiting recruitment completly to capitals would be nice as well but I have no idea how to realise this in regards to the movement of capitals from one region to the next over the time of a campaign.

[Maltacus]

How about limiting the recruitment to the original capitals? There are already units that require a specific settlement so it should be possible.

As I understand it they remain subject to the "the capital of faction X has fallen" messages even when they are no longer capitals. Making them the exclusive training grounds or upgrade grounds for generals would give the player a reason to keep such cities as capitals and to conquer them. While you can hide your court in Bordeaux for example, it should pay off if you can keep Paris. When expanding, capturing other major cities like Frankfurt or Venice should be a priority. This could represent that the administative staff and the court remains in the city the people consider the capital (London, Paris, Lisbon etc). If you switch capital you move the king and his council but the majority of the court remains. If you capture another factions capital you can enlist some of the "enemy" nobles who are disloyal because theis king did not defend their court properly.

This would fit historically as well IMO. You could of course move the king and council to a fortress in times of war, but it caused trouble since the administration was usually centered in a large city, like Frankfurt or Constantinople or so (the roman court was very corrupt though, so moving away from them would perhaps had been quite an improvement During the dissension of the Kalmar union in the 16th century, the wars in Sweden was characterized by the struggle for control over Stockholm. The currently weaker side had to set up their administration elsewhere, cut off from the most important area but still managing. There are many similar examples.

[bɑne]

How about limiting the recruitment to the original capitals? There are already units that require a specific settlement so it should be possible.

The only way I know to limit recruitment or building options makes a hidden resource necessary which cannot be moved with the actual capital. So limiting the recruitment to the original capitals (all settlements with hidden resource capital_city) would be possible and in fact the only way I know of.
It would work pretty much like the dome of rock or any other current world wonder and all other aor effects.

As I understand it they remain subject to the "the capital of faction X has fallen" messages even when they are no longer capitals.

Afaik this is due to code along the pseudocode lines of "if settlement with original name Paris is conquered display message capital of france has fallen" so there are no markers currently employed (again, that I know of) that could be used to indicate recruitment in original capital regions.

A thing thats already possible to implement is to limit the retraining of a factions bodyguard to his native regions by tying a small unit pool (max size below 1, obviously) to hidden_ressource faction name so that generals can only be retrained in "native" lands.

Making them the exclusive training grounds or upgrade grounds for generals would give the player a reason to keep such cities as capitals and to conquer them.

It would provide a nice touch as long as we counter it somehow. Imho any new feature the player can use better then the AI should be mitigated by a equal or larger bonus to the AI.

[Maltacus]

I was thinking of the hidden rescource thing myself.

Good point about the AI
In Battle for the Baltic, there is a special building in all settlements that gives AI huge law bonuses but does nothing for the player (nor can it be destroyed). Maybe it is added in other mods too. Perhaps a special building could allow the Absurd Idiot..hrm Artificial Intelligence...to recruit generals in castles or at least receive other bonuses that make up for its lack of foresight.

Dont know if Caesar Clivus invented the thing, but I havent seen it elsewhere.

[bɑne]

In Battle for the Baltic, there is a special building in all settlements that gives AI huge law bonuses but does nothing for the player (nor can it be destroyed). Maybe it is added in other mods too.

Stainless Steel afaik has that in bonuses for main settlement buildings like the wooden palisade or huge stonewall. At least mine has simple "faction is AI" checks that give a +law bonus (or health, or both...)
Having a special buildung removes the need to edit every level of settlement main building which might be the main reason behind that method.

Dont know if Caesar Clivus invented the thing, but I havent seen it elsewhere.

As mentioned above it might not have been visible to you

[luciferleigh]

What kind of average general output is expected?
The AI tends to screw up their family trees with adoptions so having them recruitable might help against "men of the hour" royal families causing the AI factions to lose their bloodline traits early in the campaign.
My thought here is that a recruited general is not in the family tree but counts (hopefully) in the ratio of generals to owned settlements which is what influences men of the hour appearances.
Question is how likely it would be that recruited generals won't join the family tree through fighting battles (and getting adopted after that). Would be a nice side effect if it doesnt backfire.

kind of general depends mostly on what buildings or how developed the fortress/citadel was, on average theyd come out with 3 command, and about 5-6 loyalty with an average age of about 20-23, lesser castles mostly produce 1 command 3-4 loyalty, and mostly above 27, best i ever got was a 7 star 8 loyalty guy at the age of 14, from sophia, although it was maxed out, but we could have the ai recruit generals at a lower tier to compensate for the AIs lack of cunning

With the AIs inability to effectivly retrain this would most likely only benefit the player - I'd actually prefer a bonus chevron to AI generals over that although it is a tempting thought. Limiting recruitment completly to capitals would be nice as well but I have no idea how to realise this in regards to the movement of capitals from one region to the next over the time of a campaign.

it could be made like the current faction crowns, as the player, to get your crown, youre forced to head your way back to your (original) capital, while the trigger for the ai is just owning the capital with a 50% chance to get the crown, with the case of experience, we could use the same idea, but with a lower % maybe

as for the capital recruitment thing, cant the province code (and IsRegionOneOf 105 xxxx_Province) be used?

[bɑne]

kind of general depends mostly on what buildings or how developed the fortress/citadel was, on average theyd come out with 3 command, and about 5-6 loyalty with an average age of about 20-23, lesser castles mostly produce 1 command 3-4 loyalty, and mostly above 27, best i ever got was a 7 star 8 loyalty guy at the age of 14, from sophia, although it was maxed out, but we could have the ai recruit generals at a lower tier to compensate for the AIs lack of cunning

Sorry I ment to direct that point at the expected number of trained generals preferably beeing so high that they would eliminate men of the hour adoptions but not so high that they would starve out the family tree (no births because of to many generals in the faction) and spam the country. I have no experience with general bodyguard recruitment enabled and was curious about the numbers of current systems. Knowing the overall quality is of course a welcome addition

[Rat-tail]

I always mod the game so I can have recruitable Generals ... so I can have Generals that are not of royal blood being used around as Battle Generals or Governors.

Either that or I would have have to bred a mighty family with massive adoptions of tainted blood and mixed names.

As a hindrance I do also mod the build and upkeep cost quite high ... so I am not tempted to just build a General Army.

[Maltacus]

Stainless Steel afaik has that in bonuses for main settlement buildings like the wooden palisade or huge stonewall. At least mine has simple "faction is AI" checks that give a +law bonus (or health, or both...)
Having a special buildung removes the need to edit every level of settlement main building which might be the main reason behind that method.

As mentioned above it might not have been visible to you

Hardly invisible, I just didnt bother looking into the files.
Could this be the way to go? Adding general recruitment ability for the AI only as a balancing measure?