Why Play with BGRIV?

[Green Warrior]

I'd like to hear from more experienced players why I ought to play with BGRIV installed.

Is it a real pain not to be able to govern settlements without an overseer present?

Do you ever really have enough family members and/or generals to govern each settlement?

How difficult is it under BGRIV to expand your empire steadily while dealing with the tight financial conditions?

[Souka]

- Not really, it's the same as without bgriv I'd say.
- You can only have enough if you have a limited amount of settlements, but as soon as you start expand you'll see you will need to switch your generals between governing and battle.
- Really depends on faction but overall it's much more difficult than without bgriv simply because you will lack the funds to support a big army for your empire. As England I got near 100 turns before I moved out of the British isles and they're considered one of the easiest factions to play.

All I can say is that if you like to roleplay or you love to be in that tight situation were you don't know what do to then bgriv is for you.

[Graeme]

Is it a real pain not to be able to govern settlements without an overseer present?
It is a pain but you have to think about things more, its more realistic a settlement should have a governor to make decisions. Its not so bad if you put one governor between two towns and have him run both, running between both and building and whilst things are getting built sitting in the biggest one to get more taxes.

Do you ever really have enough family members and/or generals to govern each settlement?
Yes by doing the above, but you still sometimes have to move men about, maybe between 3 towns. It also makes you think more about developing your towns rather then just blitzkreiging the map and taking more towns then you can manage. It makes a game longer and more thoughtful. You develop your generals more, having specialist governors and specialist military men, you appreciate administrators more, especially ones that can keep people happy in big, rebellious towns.

How difficult is it under BGRIV to expand your empire steadily while dealing with the tight financial conditions?

Its difficult, but once again possible. For example if Im Byzantium attacking Turks then in the past I would just build 2 full stack armies and gallop through Anatolia step by step, reinforcing the armies as I go and leaving 2-3 units to garrison tthe towns, all the way to Azerbaijan and Baghdad. In BGR, you have to stop after taking 4 towns in Anatolia say. You need a period of peace to garrison those towns from the people rebelling and to build churches and brothels to keep them happy. Then after ten turns say, of normalisation you can then go on the march and take some more towns. Thats if the enemy dont counter attack. It makes the game more steady. Sometimes you can only send War council or king&heir on attacking campaigns as the zeal ebbs and flows. Your campaigns have to be planned out.

[Green Warrior]

Graeme, OK, you've convinced me. I'll go with BGRIV and struggle my way through it -- the Byzantine way.

Souka, thank you for the response and the advice.

I think I now have a better idea of how I might be able manage my Byzantine Empire under the rigorous conditions of BGRIV. Thanks to both of you.

[Vernah]

I may play a whole campaign with it, im beginning to find no BGRIV too easy but I tried it a few days ago with England and couldnt be bothered with the switching generals back and forth LOL.

[Sir Walter]

I'm in the same position as Vernah, VH without BGR-IV lacks challenge and the main problems I have are in getting ceasefires with people who hate me for no reason (why on earth would Novgorod, of all people, have cause to attack England in 1108?!) I'll have a go at it.

[Graeme]

Really struggling with a Byzantine game VH/VH-BGRIV with this. Struggling for cash to fund the armies and build improvements. Ive got some good armies but could do with disbanding to get some money in to build financial structures. At the same time I cant as Im having a balanced war with Sicily and Turks have just declared war although Ive struck back. At the same time Egypt, Hungary, Kiev and Cumans are probing my borders without attacking so I cant move reinforcements around.

Probably the hardest game Ive ever had on M2TW. Enjoying it.

[Byg]

I'm in the same position as Vernah, VH without BGR-IV lacks challenge and the main problems I have are in getting ceasefires with people who hate me for no reason (why on earth would Novgorod, of all people, have cause to attack England in 1108?!) I'll have a go at it.

The game can't really stick to historical alliances or there would be no game. After turn 1 history is being remade. I expect Novgorod attacked England either because an alliance they were in required it or they saw England as a threat. I don't believe the ai should be restricted to only acting in a historical manner when the Human player is free not to. That said, I've never noticed those two at war before.

[Sir Walter]

The game can't really stick to historical alliances or there would be no game. After turn 1 history is being remade. I expect Novgorod attacked England either because an alliance they were in required it or they saw England as a threat. I don't believe the ai should be restricted to only acting in a historical manner when the Human player is free not to. That said, I've never noticed those two at war before.

I had just France as an ally, they had just Kiev. It's not about historical accuracy, it's more about them gaining nothing from attacking me at all...

[Byg]

I had just France as an ally, they had just Kiev. It's not about historical accuracy, it's more about them gaining nothing from attacking me at all...

Perhaps they were paid to.

[Sir Walter]

Perhaps they were paid to.

...by Scotland? Maybe. Though Aengus mac Cholbain was hanging out in Northumbria trying to bribe my captains...

[Vernah]

I wouldn't mind random attacks, except all they do is send a single ship or 2 to blockade my ports. If it was an invasion that would be different story, where I'd go z0mg awesome 1337n3$$. Hell even an invasion fleet where they just do an entire naval blockade of doom would be pretty epic as well.

My only problem with BGRIV is just the dozens of traits I need to look at just to do anything, its not BYG's fault its just the UI that bugs me which I think can't be changed cause of well CA.

I wonder if SS w/ RR/RC would be awesome on the ETW engine. Would require alot of modders though :/

[Byg]

I wouldn't mind random attacks, except all they do is send a single ship or 2 to blockade my ports. If it was an invasion that would be different story, where I'd go z0mg awesome 1337n3$$. Hell even an invasion fleet where they just do an entire naval blockade of doom would be pretty epic as well.

My only problem with BGRIV is just the dozens of traits I need to look at just to do anything, its not BYG's fault its just the UI that bugs me which I think can't be changed cause of well CA.

I wonder if SS w/ RR/RC would be awesome on the ETW engine. Would require alot of modders though :/

The small fleet blockades is common to vanilla and all mods isn't it? It would be great to see a blockade maintained for a few turns though. At least in BGR the loss of trade actually matters because money can be so tight. The hit and run blockading by the ai is cost effective for them if you remember that a ship's upkeep may be only a few hundred, but a port's lost trade may be in the thousands.

I can only speak for myself in that the more I have played, the less I need to refer to the traits, particularly as the action is mostly concentrated onto 1-3 generals. And the BGR traits are at least all grouped together for easier viewing and important issues are announced (so no need to refer to the traits). Every few turns I may check each general's wealth to ensure they can afford any taxes or expenses I may impose or have imposed upon me, that's my main reason for checking traits. Even that part is automated though for certain generals.

[Vernah]

LOL ya true, the random blockading is pretty much for every mtw mod I cannot deny that. It just humors me when I see the byzantines blockade me as Norway or the Spanish blockade me as Novgorod. It's true though when you say that the upkeep of a mere ship hampers the trade of a city by several thousand florins, especially if you let it go on for multiple turns.

I'm going to do a Genoa or Siciliy campaign I think for BGR, it shan't hurt to at least give it 100 turns before saying yay or nay lawl. I will give you props though for implementing the system that you did under the restrictions of the MTW2 engine, if you had your very own design team with your own game engine, you'd create some z0mgasm games in strategy.

[Byg]

LOL ya true, the random blockading is pretty much for every mtw mod I cannot deny that. It just humors me when I see the byzantines blockade me as Norway or the Spanish blockade me as Novgorod. It's true though when you say that the upkeep of a mere ship hampers the trade of a city by several thousand florins, especially if you let it go on for multiple turns.

I'm going to do a Genoa or Siciliy campaign I think for BGR, it shan't hurt to at least give it 100 turns before saying yay or nay lawl. I will give you props though for implementing the system that you did under the restrictions of the MTW2 engine, if you had your very own design team with your own game engine, you'd create some z0mgasm games in strategy.

Aye, if only the system allowed me to use variables, it would all be so much easier and the scope would be enormous.

[NewUser]

BGR is an overall improvement on the game; however, it depends on how good your computer is. If it adds 2 minutes between turns then don't use it.

[Byg]

BGR is an overall improvement on the game; however, it depends on how good your computer is. If it adds 2 minutes between turns then don't use it.

I've managed to remove the turn delay with BGRV, however, the compilation mod now has many other scripts so there is still delay. On my fast computer a turn time of
1:27 is reduced to 1:02
1:34 is reduced to 1:17 (this turn included a diplomatic animation and response)

[Graeme]

I dont mind the delays too much. About 2 mins for me on my good spec machine. Besides I remember the days of waiting 30 mins to load a cassette on a C64. Also means I can still have a conversation between turns with the Mrs rather then disappearing for the evening in heavy thought and being accused of being uncommunicative.

[Byg]

I dont mind the delays too much. About 2 mins for me on my good spec machine. Besides I remember the days of waiting 30 mins to load a cassette on a C64. Also means I can still have a conversation between turns with the Mrs rather then disappearing for the evening in heavy thought and being accused of being uncommunicative.

Actually i think those old cassettes only took about 5 minutes, which is about how long it takes to turn a pc on and then load a game. Nothing much improved there.
Anyhow when done, I'll add back in some delay, say just enough to make a cup of tea?

[Graeme]

Actually i think those old cassettes only took about 5 minutes, which is about how long it takes to turn a pc on and then load a game. Nothing much improved there.
Anyhow when done, I'll add back in some delay, say just enough to make a cup of tea?

Maybe it felt a long time as a kid. Im pretty sure I remember waiting that long for the Ninja Turtles game to load, by which time it would crash or chew the tape up. The delay is worth it for the extra complexity in the game, gives me time to as you say make a brew or stick a log on the fire.

Had a good one last night whilst trying to take the Sicilians in Durazzo as Byzantium. They had a few armies knocking about outside which took a couple of turns to clear and then I laid siege. I know about the supply situation but thought Id be alright. My supply ship was intercepted the next turn by which time the troops were despondant, supplies gone and my general lost his stars. Had to return home before managing to go back and take it a few turns later. It perfectly simulated the end of the campaigning season and the supply situation.