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Thread: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

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    Default The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    This is the true sequence of action of WW2. It´s the transcript for a 1,5h documentary which is by now only available in german ("Hitlers Krieg? Was Guido Knopp verschweigt") and which has reached a huge audience by now. One might say, it´s a kind of block buster for it tells the german perspective of WW2 for the first time in a professional manner. It is based on Gerd Schulze Rhonhof´s Book "Der Krieg der viele Väter hatte" ("The war that had many fathers"). Rhonhof- beeing a former high ranked german military person w´did what a good historian should do: He went to the archives and by help of historians wrote that book- which could not be refuted so far.

    As this is just the transcript meant to be narrated in the film, I tried to spice the reading up with some images.

    Hitler´s War?

    Adolf Hitler:
    "...insults over months a nationstate, and threatens it, to beat it up, to
    fight battles in berlin, to chop germany´s armies, to displace the
    frontier to the Oder-river or the Elbe- river, and so on and so forth. And
    this nationstate- germany- patiently watches these on-goings. Solely the
    english and french warmongers needed this war but not peace. "We need a
    long war" as Mr. Chamberlain put it, "at least 3 years long".
    because of my peace offer I have been abused, personally insulted- in
    front of the world public Mr. Chamberlain literally spat into my face and
    refuses to even talk about peace.
    I hear but one cry from London: That now even more this war has to
    continue, that they continue this war, even if it meant england to perish.
    It´s not my ambition to be at war, but to create a new social nation state
    History films presents:

    Hitlers War?

    22nd of August, 1939-

    The last days before the beginning of WW2 have arrived. Few days of
    tenacious negotiations between the european forces will decide, whether
    the rest of the Versailles Post- War order will remain, or be overcome,
    will decide, whether there will be peace or war in europe.

    6 1/2 years ago

    January 30th, 1933:

    The national socialists celebrate their coming into
    power. Victory was the result of the failings of the weimar republic.No
    less than 20 social dmocratic or middle class dominated cabinets- with 12
    different Reich chancellors- have failed.
    Millions of germans live in hunger. Sebastian Haffner, an outspoken enemy
    of the 3rd Reich, describes the atmosphere during the takeover as follows:

    "It was a very common and widely spread feeling of salvation and
    liberation from democracy".
    In economics, the national socialists used a system of governmental
    control, in so called "4-year-plans" the goals of the respective economic-
    and larbour programs were defined. Responsible for their creation and
    accomplishment was Hermann Göhring. The National Socialists focussed in
    particular on the recovery of the middle class, which was specifically
    aided and supported by governmental contracts.

    Also an important tool against mass unemployment was the
    Reichsarbeitsdienst. The 6 month lasting work service disburdened the
    labour market, offered a qualified education to many youngsters, and
    enabled the realisation of prjects fro the common- good. Alone in the
    sector of aggricultural cultivation meassures, the work hours of the
    Arbeitsdienst sum up into many hundreds of millions of workdays. Drainage of swamps, forestry, road building or assistance during the harvests- the accomplishments of the reichsarbeitsdienst in these fields are undisputed.

    The social and economical boom could not be overseen. The armamentsindustry herein didnt play the role it is adjudged today. The vast majority of german enterprises produced for the private sector and consumption.

    Hitler´s first steps on international parquet are as humble as contained. Just as he realizes, that the victors do not reward his diffidence, he changes his methods. Hitlers first focusses his attention on the Saarland,

    which after the treaty of versailles was attached to france for a 15 year duration. After these 15 years, the Saarland´s population was ought to hold a referendum on whether they wanted to stay french, neutral or become german again. The referendum´s result crushed all french hopes: 90.8% of the saarland people demanded the reunification with the reich.

    On march 1st, 1935 the governemental control over the saarland goes back into german hands again. Hitler, just having won his first foreign political victory, gives a state of the nation adress to the Reichstag. where he celebratoriously buries any german demands on french occupied alsace lorraine.

    His next target is the demilitarized rhineland.

    In 1921 and 1923 France and belgium used the demilitarization of the rhineland to occupy the Ruhr- area with own troops.
    In 1925, despite this abasement, the german reich´s government re-affirms in the "pact of locarno" the de-militarization of the western border. That way she pays her ticket for the german membership in the league of nations.

    In the same breath the nationstates france, belgium and germany guarantee each other, not to sign any treaties aimed against each other in the future. Just 10 years later, this treaty aswell is obsolete.
    France signs a mutual assitance pact with the soviet union, which without a doubt, is aimed against the german reich.
    France not simply broke the pact of locarno, but also devalued the german-polish non-aggression- pact. With this treaty, Hitler intended to create security on the eastern border and break trhough France´s policy of encirclement. Now France plugged the hole in it´s circle around germany with a new ally: the soviet union.

    After France´s breach of agreement, Hitler on his part didnt feel bound to the pact of locarno aswell, and orders german troops to march into the -untill now- defenseless rhineland on march 7th, 1936.

    Before this, Hitler had explained his intentions to the leadership of the
    foreign office and the military. Both sides advised against this step and
    warned of a military reaction of Paris, but Hitler anticipates
    differently, and is proofen right.

    Lets take the time and go back to the years after WW1.

    In Versailles,
    victors and defeated agree in the treaty, to reduce their troops to an
    essential minimum capacity.
    The treaty demands germany to disarm at first,
    and the other nation states to follow. Germany fulfills its duty untill
    1927, and downsizes the Reichswehr to 100.000 men in the army and 15.000
    men in the naval forces. The airforce gets disassembled entirely. Now it
    would have been the victor´s turn to keep their disarmament aggrements
    stipulated in the treaty of versailles.

    In reality, France, England and the USA don´t even think about disarmament
    as agreed upon.
    In contrary, they keep extensive miltary forces. France in
    particular land and air forces, the USA and England especially sea forces,
    and they invest significant finaces into modernization of their weapon
    Requests from germany, to at least beeing permitted to bring the army into
    a tenable state, are neglected.
    When Hitler comes to power in 1933, France and its allied neighbour
    states- the soviet union excluded- are with respect to active army
    divisions superiour to the german reich by a 12- fold. Bringing the
    equipped reserve army reserves into calculation, the superiority over the
    German Reich even ammounts to 1:97.

    In the following years Hitler proposed during the geneva disarmament
    negotiations for 6 times, to limit the quantitiy of certain weapon categories
    as bombers, artillery cannons and other weapons for all nation states.
    When his proposal fails, he starts to rebuilt the small Reichswehr to a
    strong and modern Wehrmacht.

    Hitlers next foreign political step is the attachment of austria. As this
    step is unisono labelled as "annexation", it makes sense to remind of the
    historical contexts.

    Untill the prusso- austrian war of 1866, austria had a unitity with first
    the german empire, and adjacently with the Bund. After the defat of
    1918,and the annulment of the Habsburg reich, the victors decimate
    habsburg to its german speaking core: Austria.

    The first national assembly of vienna decided the re- attachement of rest
    austria to the german neighbour state. Referendums in some austrian
    federal districts document the overwhelming support in the population for
    such a step.
    But the right of self- determination of the peoples did not
    count for the defeated. The re-attachement failed due to the categorical
    negliance of the victors.

    In 1933 a conservative dictatorship emerged in austria, which abandonded
    the right to vote, and denied the attachment to the german reich.

    The despotic acting austrian chancellor Dr. Dollfuß prohibited the trade
    unions and parties of the social democrats, aswell as the parties of the
    national socialists and the communists. During a putsch of austrian
    national socialits in July 1934, and trying to arrest Dollfuß, the
    dictator gets shot.

    In march 1938 Dollfuß successor Dr. Schuschnigg
    tried to undermine austrias will to attach to the reich by means of a very
    strange referendum. On March 9th, 1938 he announced a nationwide
    referendum on the question of attachment to the reich in just 4 days time,
    on march 13th.
    For this referendum, there were no electoral registers,supervision of the
    election stay solely in the hands of his very own party. Citizens in
    public service were ordered to only go to the referendum under supervision
    of their superiours. Furtehrmore they should display their filled
    referendum ballots to their respective superiour- ballot papers where one
    could only vote against re- attachement of austria to the german reich.
    Voters that wanted to vote for re- attachment to the reich, ahd to
    manufacture their own ballots.

    (*Read: everything for austria- WITHOUT Schuschnigg*)
    Austria´s homesecretary and national socialist Dr. Seiß Inquart
    demanded 3 times in vain from Chancellor Schuschnigg, to postpone the
    referendum and to hold it in a way according to the constitution.
    Schuschnigg denied this categorically.
    Finally Seiß Inquart contacted his german colleage, homescretary Göhring,
    who lived a part of his youth in austria. He forwarded the newest
    developments to Hitler.

    Göhring, having lived in austria in his youth, and
    Hitler, beeing born in the austrian town of Braunau, watched Schuschniggs
    attempts of manipulation with dismay. All attempts to convince Schuschnigg
    to resign failed. Just as Göhring threatened to let german troops march
    in, Schuschnigg resingned his post as chancellor of austria.

    During the morning hours of the following day, german troops march flower
    decorated and displayed with colors towards Salzburg, Linz and Innsbruck,
    where they are greeted with cheer and tears of joy from the austrian

    When Hitler arrives in Vienna the next day, the austrians welcome him triumphantly.

    "The oldest east- mark of the german people, shall from now on be the youngest bastion of the german nation and hence the german reich.
    I shall, in this hour of the german people, announce my greatest success:
    As the leader and the chancellor of the german nation and the reich, I announce in front of germany´s history, the entrance of my homeland into the german reich"
    Almost in the same time, austiran troops enter Munich, dresden, Stuttgart, and berlin- as sign to the world, that here a peaceful reunification is going on but not a conquest. In march 13th, the in the meantime appointed chancellor of austria- Seiss Inquardt, and Hitler sign a law concernign the attachment of austria to the german reich. Affirmation for this step is catched up by means of a nation wide referendum on 10th of april, 1939:
    99,73% vote for the attachement. That much on "annexation of austria"...


    "Theres often been sung about Donau-river, on river Rhine some beautiful song was heard: Of german root we always were, till a quarrel disrupted our band, this little song here shall remind you, shall tell you what will be: german east mark people on the rhine, you shall never be apart again. blue Donau green Rhine, you shall forever stay companions, blue the faith and green the hope, for a united german fatherland."

    Lets go back tot he years after WW1, Czechoslovakia- an artificial product of the victors- emerges in 1919 from Czechia,Slovakia and a small part of Ukraine.

    3 territories, that never before constituted a nationstate. 6.7 mio czechs, 3.1mio germans, 2mio slovaks, 700.000 hungarians, and 460.000 ukranians combined into a multiethnic- state, where the czechs and slovaks form the titular nations.
    The more than 3mio germans, demanding in vain their reunification with the german riech, live on foremost in the border regions, and according to that region label themselves as "Sudetengermans".

    The constiction of this multiethnic state "czechoslovakia" was determined by the treaties of Versailles and Saint germain. Those demanded, that the national minorities should gain their inner autonomies. Guidelines, that the new masters in the country accepted friendly smiling, just to abrogate them similarly friendly smiling later on.
    As early as 1920 a new constitution abolishes the right to self determination of the germans, hungarians and poles.

    The minorities become culturally and economically more and more oppressed, to all important positions czechs are appointed. Since september 1937, the sudetengerman´s negotiations with the czech government on their autonomy remain futile. Neither the Sudetengermans nor Hitler talk about the attachment of the sudeten territories to the reich at that point of time.

    From march 1938 onwards, czechian assaults on the german minority increase dramatically, in consequence, the sudetengerman representative demands publicly to attach the sudetenlands to the reich. As the government in prague announces martial law over 13 Sudeten provinces, Hitler demands the return of the sudeten territories to the german reich.In a posthastily arranged conference in munich on sept 20th, the heads of state of england, france, italy and germany agree upon returning the sudeten territories as long as they are majorily inhabitated by germans.

    3 mio more germans return home into the reich.

    The memel land, cut off by the victors in 1919 and as a mandate of the
    league of nations put under french control, gets annexed in violation of
    the law of nations by lithuania in 1920.
    After the sudetengerman´s
    succeful return to the reich, the germans in the memel regions demand
    their return aswell.

    When the lithuanian government wanted it´s claim to power over the memel
    territories beeing warranted by england and france, both powers refused to
    do so. In consequense, the lithuanian goverment signed a handing over
    treaty with germany on march 22nd, 1939, and withdraw her administrational bodies and troops from there. In return, lithuania received a free market zone in memel, an free right of way for a 99 years duration. The return of the small memel territories was relatively meaningless,

    but this act gained some weight, as poland felt herself alienated.

    Warsaw feared a similar development in the free state of Danzig which too was a
    mandate of the league of nations, but where the victorious powers of WW1 granted poland such far reaching rights, that it was factually under
    polish control.
    Despite these far reaching concessions already breached
    the existing treaties, poland was not yet satisfied. The polish government
    stated her intentions publicly several times, to attach Danzig to the
    polish national territory.

    lets go back to the years after the first world war, despite her gains of
    territories, poland was unsatisfied with the new order in eastern europe.

    The polish groupleader of the versailles delegation -Gumorvsky???- already
    back then outrightly explained, that the territories granted to the nation
    state of poland were
    " merely a pre-payment on a real Greater Poland".
    Directly after end of the war, Poland started to build up a strong army,
    and untill 1938 she attacked the, weakenend by revolution, soviet union,
    lithuania, germany and czechoslovakia and annexed border regions of these neighbour states. For this reason, the border conflicts of the next 20
    years were determined.

    Until 1934 the conflict of germany and poland smoldered.

    In 1933, after Hitler won the elections, the polish head of state, marshall Pilsudski
    requested france serveral times to start a common attack on germany. Just
    as France rejected to do so, poland gave in. In 1934 a friendshiptreaty
    was signed, that introduced a phase of harmonisation.But the disputes kept on smoldering under the surface. Especially Danzig, situated at the baltic sea and east prussia, which was cut off from the reich became the centers
    of political attention.

    The 370.000 inhabitants of danzig consisted of 97% germans and 3% of foreigners, mostly polish. Despite this fact, warsaw tried to gain control over the strategically important harbor city. The wish of Danzigs inhabitants to return to the german motherland failed due to the prohibition of the victory powers.
    The egrman demand of the re attachment of Danzig to the reich, will constitute 1 out of 3 resons of the future war between germany and poland.

    In western prussia, which was granted to poland after the versailles treaty, the situation was comparable. Here two thirds of the populations confessed loyal germany. Due to the loss of west prussia, east- prussia was cut off the reich. This unbearable situation will later on constitute the second of 3 reasons for the outbreak of world war 2.

    All transport connections from the reich to cut-off east prussia were under polish control. The coal transports, that were essential for east prussias supply with energy, had to be realized by means of 8 railroads, which were now under polish control.
    As germany, after the world economic crisis, couldnt pay the transit fees in full ammount in polish zloties, poland one by one closed the railroad tracks. The poles felt right to do so, as germany tried- contradicting the rules set in the treaty of versailles, to pay the rest of her tarriff rates in marks instead of zlotys. germany on the other hand saw herself in duty, to avoid the economical stranglement of eastern prussia by all means. When the polish administration threatened to cut off all railroad tracks in 1936, germany developed the idea of an exterritorial railway and highway track through polish occupied west prussia to east- prussia. In order to realize this plan, and to reunite danzig with the german motherland, negotiations between berlin and warsaw came into beeing. Core of germany´s first proposal on oct. 24th 1938, was the offer to accept polish souvereignity over the formerly german territories of upper silesia,west- prussia and Posen. Poland tried to gain this approval since 1920 several times in vain. For this germany demanded exteritorial transtportion lines to east prussia and the re unification with danzig.
    Not a single of the more than 20 administrations of the weimar republic granted that far reaching concessions to the poles.

    Hitler is the first to oblige to the poles in this question.
    The negotiations go on until the end of january 1939, but despite polish avowals to search for solutions, nothing comes from it.

    During the january talks Hitler expands his proposals with the following compromise:
    "Danzig (Gdansk) comes back to the german community amd stays economically with poland".
    As Danzig´s league of nation´s mandte is not polish, this proposal is indeed a real compromise.
    In february and march 1939- the egrman side is still looking for a peaceful settlement, poland already starts thinking seriously about war. In february the polish general staff develops guidelines for operations of the polish army against germany.On march 4th, 1939 the so called "main staff" begins it´s plannings for "operation west"- a full month before Hitler orders the leadership of the Wehrmacht to start her work on "Fall weiss"- the attack plan on poland.

    At this point of time the dice were longtime cast on allied side aswell.

    As early as march 1939 London and Paris guaranteed warsaw support in case the Danzig and corridor question should develop into a confrontation. When the former reichs chancellor Heinrich Brühning, living in London exile, proposes a compromise to the english foreign ministry aimed to avoid a military confrontation, he is declined by Churchill in a gruff manner. Churchill unmisunderstandably makes it clear to him, what interest great britain has:

    "What we want is, that the german economy gets smashed entirely."
    It is a closing of ranks with the french embassador in Berlin- Andre Francois Poncet, who expressed himself shortly before that way:

    "You have to live with the germans, but it would be way better, if one could chase them out of europe, like the arabs once were chased out of spain."
    On may 15th, the french chief of staff, General Gamelin assured the polish minister of war- General Kasprzycki, that in case of war the french army, , would attack with all its might the western border of germany, and together with poland would heckle germany. A promise, that would amplify poland´s anti- german attitude.

    Warsaw believded those promises, and from then on increased the rudeness of its tone towards Berlin. While the british, the french and the poles bolster each other for a coming war against germany, Hitler tried by means of negotiations to end the problems with poland created in the treaty of versailles.

    On April 28th, in a memorandum for the polish adminsitration and in a speech in the Reichstag (german parliament) Hitler yet again acknowledges Polands claim on west prussia and it´s own access to the baltic sea. Further more he offered additional treaties between the two nations. No threat towards poland, not a single word about war. Had the poles accepted this offer, and in a countermove granted the exterritorial highways and the reunification of danzig, world war 2 would have been avoided.

    While poland backed up with english and french war guarantees sees no further reason to negoitiate with germany, and while in warsaw maps ciculate, that display the new polish western border west of Berlin, all across poland pogroms against the ethnic minorities start.

    In galicia starts a detention campaign against the ukrainians; germans get deported by the thousands to inner- poland, german stores get boycotted, german farms get torched, germans are beaten up in open streets, in 3 occasions polish air raid defenses fire at civil german Lufthansa planes on their way to Königsberg.

    In July and August of 1939, facing those violent infringements, a wave of fugitives sets in, which gets bigger and bigger day by day. Minority germans try to make their way to the free state of Danzig and germany. Who risks escaping, risks his life. Night by night, polish border officials shoot fleeing germans, nonetheless many attempt to make their way to freedom. Shortly before outbreak of the war, there are 80.000 minority germans in fugitive camps in Danzig and the german Reich.

    Hitler in numerous occasions pointed out to the english and the french administration, that with regard to this drama, a solution to the german/polish question is not to be delayed anymore. The misery of the minority germans in poland now overshadows the open questions on Danzig and the transit ways. That misery in 1939 now developed to the third and most pressing reason for the outbreak of the war.

    (Go here *click*and scroll down to see more of the "innocent pole´s" actions)

    In late spring of 1939, after 5 failed negotiation initiatives, Hitler comes to the decision, that the batch of problems at a pinch needs to be resolved by means of war. In the summer of the year 1939, Hitler gives order to let 52 army divisions be deployed.

    One aspect we havent paid any attention so far: The soviet Union. A mostly isolationist power, whose leaders still dream of world revolution.

    The unscrupulous tactician Stalin is still determined to Lenis doctrin of the outbreak of the revolution in europe. Here he does not count on the communist parties in western europe, but on a forced "revolutionization" form the outside. Thats why he orders the red army to be modelled into a modern attack army, that is ought to bring the fire of the revolution into the heart of europe. To finance this, he initiates savage plunders of his own people, a step, that shall cost millions of lives. His aim is, to squeeze as much grain as possible from the farmers in order to sell it abroad. The profits shall be used to pay for the western technologies needed to upgrade his army. The exact numbers of this tragedy are till this day in the shadows. It is settled, that just in ucraine- the corn chamber of russia- around 5mio people perished by hunger, with elderly and children to be the majority of victims, because Stalin´s myrmidons confiscated the seeds in order to pay for the ambitious modernization of the army.

    By 1934, the soviet union posesses more tanks than all european powers combined and in 1941- immediate to the german eastern campaign- the number of combat tanks ammounts to around 24.000.

    Stalin´s strategy is grounded in an elaboration by Michail Torachevsky- head of the revolutionary war comitee, that as early as in the beginning of the 30ies developed a concept of
    "revolutionizing from the outside"

    In this concept, torachevsky (??) attributes to the red army the role of carrying the war in a destructive strike deep into the country of the enemy. This by means of superiour tank- and air- forces, if necessary also by means of chemical warfare.

    That Stalin sticks with that concept, proovs the batch produced tank type "Kliment Voroshilov", in short labelled "KV", which was especially designed for western europe´s well developed network of roads.
    After english and soviet negotiators checked a possible framework for an alliance against germany in april and june of 1939, a french and english delegation enters moscow in August of 1939 in order to negotiate about a war against germany. Stalin delays the representatives of the western powers, he tries to play for safety attempting to get his plans fulfilled. He is not interested in peace, he seeks war in europe, and under this premise he choses his ally.
    Germany aswell seeks a clearing with the soviet union, Hitler seeks stalins alliance to be able to strike against poland. He is of the erring opinion, that a pact with russia would detain england and france from acting militarily against germany. STalin on the other side is convinced, that a german strike against poland would result in a french and english declaration of war against germany. This would create exactly the situation that Lenin described in his doctrin of 1920:

    A militarical struggle between both rivaling capitalistic blocks of europe.

    On 15th of august, 1939, when germany offers a non aggression treaty and a distrbution of the respective spheres of interest in eastern europe, Stalin has achieved his goal. Well knowing, that the developments now reached their critical phase, Stalin calls for the polit bureau for a secret meeting on august 19th, 1939.

    In the innerst circle of his confidants Stalin lets the cat out of the bag:

    " The question of peace or war has reached its critical phase. The solution depends entirely on the position the soviet union will take. We are absolutely convinced, that if we sign a treaty of assistance with france and england, germany will see herself forced to shy back from poland and to look for a mode vivendi with the western powers. This way, a war could be avoided. On the other hand, if we accept germany´s proposals- which you know- namely to sign a non aggresion treaty, then germany will attack poland for sure and the intervention of england and france becomes unavoidable. Under these circumstances we have great chances to stay out of the conflict and can tensely wait for our time. It is decisive for us, that this war lasts as long as possible- until the exhaustment of both sides. Thats exactly what is in our interest."

    Promptly the soviets turn away from england and france, in direction of germany. On august 23rd, a german soviet non-aggresion treaty is signed.

    Hitlers back is now cleared for an attack on Poland.

    But then something hapens, that needs our attention: Hitler delays the formerly planned date of august 26th for the attack of the Wehrmacht on poland, and tries again to negotiate with warsaw.
    Trying to reach a success, Hitler pleases the english government for assitance during the talks with the poles, while he offers London an assistance and friendship treaty. Aim of this offer, besides the solving of the polish-german problems, the final settlement of all british-german dissonances.

    Hitler offers a guarantee for Poland´s borders aswell his support for the british empire, should it ever need military support.

    England evades this offer, delays Hitler with hints to poland´s alleged readyness to negotiate, and reaffirms warsaw the SAME time in it´s hard-bitten attitude. London now played a cat and mouse game with berlin for a couple of days. For the outside, and for the pacification of germany, London urges poland to negotiate with germany. At the very same time the english foreign minsiter lets warsaw know:

    "Indeed the polish government needs to negotiate, but nobody in London will misinterpret the polish readyness to negotiate as concessions with regard to the issue."
    In plain text the message to poland was as follows: Negotiations- yes, but concessions in direction of germany are not expected.

    Of historical importance in that context is the role of the american president roosevelt. Despite he knows for 7 days, that Hitler aggreed on the soviet unions demand for east poland beeing the sphere of soviet interest, he does not forward this information to the polish government. It doesnt need a huge imagination to realize, that the polish government, had it known of this arrangement, would have preferred the re- attachment of danzig to the german reich over the loss of eastern poland.

    On august 30th, Hitler makes a final offer to poland:

    He demands the attachment of Danzig to the german Reich as compensation for germany´s approval on poland´s acquisition of formerly german territories after WW1. Furthermore he demanded a referendum of the inhabitants in the so called corridor, the former land bridge between pomerania and east prussia. The inhabitants of that area, for which Hitler formerly only demanded exterritorial transit ways, now shalld ecide themselves, wheter they are polish or german. The nationstate that would win the referendum, would be ought to grant the other party exterritorial transit ways. This means either a german transit way from pomerania to west-prussia, or a polish transit way from Poland to the polish baltic harbor Gdingen. No matter the outcome of the referendum, Gdingen should remain with poland.
    The polish administration acts as she was adviced by the english shortly before:
    She does not accept compromise.

    In the afternoon of august 31st, 1939, a 10 day lasting negotiation- marathon concludes with poland´s refusal.

    The contents of the notes, telephone calls, personal talks, which during these days took place between London, Warsaw and Berlin, is transmitted in the files of the respective diplomats and administrations in such a concordant manner, that there is no doubt on the correctness of this description.

    The often cited Hitler quote shortly before outbreak of the war:

    "I am just afraid, that in the last moment some swinehund (Schweinehund) comes across with an intermediate proposal"
    , which suggests, that the german side and especially Hitler didnt want to negotiate, is in contrast a fabrication from the nuremberg trials.

    When the polish government, on august 31st 1939 refuses to get into direct negotiations with germany, Hitler gives order to the wehrmacht, to attack poland the next morning.

    On September 1st, 1939, the german wehrmacht lines up for her battle against Poland.

    "I have come to the decision, to talk to the poles the same way they talk to us for months". Since 5.45 o´clock we fire back. From now on, every bomb will be repaid with a bomb."
    On September 3rd, england and france meet their alliance liabilities, and declare war on germany. Almost the entire commonwealth and some french colonies follow up.

    The dispute over Danzig, the corridor and the human rights of the german minority in poland, has in a 2 days time developed into a world war.

    Rigth from the beginning, the war in poland affects the civilian population aswell. On the one hand, german troops cannot always avert the involvement of civilians, on the other hand the polish population- aided by the military- right from start begins to hunt germans who still live in poland.

    In a wave of house searches, depredations, displacements, abusements, rapes and murders more than 5000 polish citizens with german mother toungue lose their lives. The greatest bloodbath takes place during day 3 of the war in the city of bromberg, where approximately 1000 get murdered. The conflicts escalates, when polish snipers, after withdrawal of regular polish troops, initiate partisan warfare against the german troops.

    On Sept. 4th, war it starts in the west aswell. England´s airforce attacks german ships with 16 bombers, that lie in the roads in Cuxhafen, Willhelmshafen and Brunsbüttel. One day later, the german U-boat weapon and the royal navy start their war in the atlantic. Both sink that day the first enemy trade ships.
    On Septemeber 6th a german directive comes into action that demands, neither to shoot at nor to inspect french trading ships. The government of the reich still attempts to keep france out of the war.

    On sept 10th, england violates the neutrality of the small country of belgium, when her bombers fly across her. Maybe this move attempted to drag the neutral state into war.

    From september 12th on, british troops land on the continent, strenghtening the french forces.

    Taking this step, england complies with it´s war guarantees towards the poles, but without disburdening them the least.

    France displays her alliance- loyalty, by deploying a further 80! divisions in the west between the north-sea and switzerland- a daunting strike force which in the beginning is just opposed by 11 german divisions.

    But a full scale attack of the french, that would have disburdened the poles, does not take place. The wehrmacht in the meantime progresses rapidly in poland.

    On sept 5th, 1939 the polish high command orders the rudnitzky army, beeing in action in north-west poland, to avoid contact with german troops, to destroy any aliments in their zone, and to only let desolate and destroyed country over for the advancing germans. For the first time in WW2, the principle of "scorched earth" is beeing used.

    While the german Wehrmacht overruns poland, the inner circle of the bolshevik leadership assembles in moscow on sept. 7th 1939. In a short adress, Stalin again exposes his strategy:

    "The war is beeing fought by 2 kinds of capitalistic states. We have nothing against them beating each other up and weakening themselves. Hitler himself shatters, without understanding or wanting to do so, the capitalistic system. We can maneuver and bring up one side against the other, to get them enageged with each other even more".
    But stalin´s plan is not successful in all aspects. Convinced, the polish army could defy the wehrmacht for a certain ammount of time, the red is entirely suprised by the german´s fast advance. As a german lightning victory manifests itself, Stalin orders the invasion of east-poland to secure his part of the prey.

    Just one day later, sept the 18th, the wehrmacht had captured the whole of poland western of the kucon-line, but except the capital of warsaw. On sept. 19th, the french and english react on the soviet´s involvement in the war, and demands moscow to withdraw her troops out of poland. If this would not happen, the threat from Paris and London goes, a declaration of war would automatically follow. It remains a threat. 4 weeks later the british and the frensh initiate secret negotiations with the russians,in order to eventually drag them into a common war against germany.

    In the morning hours of sept 16th, a german peace envoy transmits an ultimatum to the polish lines in warsaw, which demands the polish commander of the city to termlessly surrender the city. Otherwise, the city would be treated as a fortress.

    The polish commander, who during the past days equipped the city with anti- tank walls, barricades and installations for defense, denied acceptance of the ultimatum.
    Shortly before midnight, a sceond ultimatum broadcasted by radio urges the persons in charge, to send negotiators to the german lines at 10 pm.

    The polish negotiators never came. Dropping leaflets from air planes was of no success either.

    On sept 26th, after a drumfire of the german artillery, the assault on the city commences. 24 hours later, warsaw capitulated. The number of deaths and injured, including many civilians, figures at 40.000.

    The german-polish-soviet war ends after just 29 days with the defeat of poland.

    One week later, Hitler proposes england and france to make peace. In a secret adress he offers to clear the polish occupied part of poland, except for the corridor territories.

    Paris and London deny the offer.

    Goal of paris and london is not the rescue of poland, but solely the divestiture of germany.

    Despite france declred war on germany, the guns remain silent on the western border. On the german -english front in the atlantic and the north sea, battles go on.

    In order to improve her initial position, the soviet union aussaults- without a declaration of war- finland on november 30th, 1939. The only 160.000 finish troops fight the red army acrimoniously, and cause her significant losses in a several months lasting winter battle. Close to 130.000 soviet soldiers die, not until march 1940 finland has to surrender to russias multiple fold superiourity.

    To the german manufacturers and armamanets industry, replenishment with swedish ore from the north norwegian harbor narvik is vital. London and Paris know this aswell.

    On march 2nd and april 6th the german government of the reich again offers peace to france and england and the withdrawal of her troops out of poland.

    The english answer is the deployment of sea mines in norwegian territorial waters.

    3 days after the last german peace offer, the germans, the british and the french launch an attack on narvik and her surroundings.

    After weeks lasting battles, the german wehrmacht occupies entire norway and denmark. The supply with ore is secured, but the german frontline far overstretched.
    The guns still remain sitlent on the western french-german frontline, but Berlin does not miss, that London is deploying more and more troops to northern france.

    On 10th of may, 1940, england occupies neurtal iceland, and improves her base of operations for the war in the nrothern atlantic. The same day, the german wehrmacht attacks france- a continuation to wait on the german side would have only benefited the allied side and their deployment of troops.

    As in WW1 neutral belgium was involved to strike france by means of a northern encirclement, this time aswell the wehrmacht marches into belgium and additionally into the netherlands and luxembourg.

    France is beaten within 6 weeks. The "Blitzkrieg" expression arises.

    Hitler still hopes for a peaceful accomodation with London- in a spectacular gesture he refuses to annihilate the british expeditionary corps and lets it escape by way of dunkirch (dunkerque) to england.

    On 20th of june, italy declares war on already beaten france. The german side reacts outspokenly contained.

    "Harvest helpers" is the sneering expression german landsers give the uninvited guests who secure their share of the prey.

    While the world focusses on the western theatre of war,
    the red army occupies the baltic states, parts of romania including the heavily ethnic-german populated bokurvina.

    between september 1939 and summer 1940, Stalin breaks the exisiting non- agression treaties with all his 6 neighbour states. But the western powers remains silent. In the ooccupied territories his secret police establishes a reign of terror and kils 10s of thousands of innocent. Not a word fo critique from London or Paris. One reamins contained as one hopes to still win Stalin as an ally against germany.

    On 19th of July, 1940- france is already beaten, Hitler offers a 3rd peace treaty to england. This time aswell, his hopes are in vain, war continues.

    From 7th of july onwards, germany tries to bring down england by means of an air war, which also prooves futile.

    On august 5th, Italy attacks british somalia, and on august 13th the british occupied egypt.

    In december the formally neutral USA deliver 50 cruisers to the british for their sea war against germany. On september 1st, the soviet union introduces cumpulsory military service. Millions of young men head to the barracks. Shortly after, the german secret service informs Hitler about the content of a secret meeting of the highest soviet from august 2nd, where it was openly stated:

    "that one has to forestall an attack of the western neighbor".

    Not only Hitler is concerned, the romanian head of state general Ion Antonescu pleases the german leadership of the reich for military support against a possible soviet attack. Hitler promises help and sends troops to secure the romanian oil fields of "Plojeschnienk???.

    Despite englands desperate militarical situation, london was suprised over the more than 2 dozen german peace offers that reached the island via secret diplomatic channels.

    On 18 pages of a to 12 copies limited memorandum, here shown copy number 8, the foreign ministry compiled the various neutral and german peace initiatives. This memorandum was only for the eyes of the innerst deciding circles. By help of this memorandum a decision was ought to be taken, whether how to react to the german peace offers. Such peace initiatives were initiated for example by the swedish industrial Dahlerus, the former chancellor of the Reich Franz von Papen, the vatican, king of sweden, the finish premier minister, king of spain, Dr. Ludwig Weissauer and Dr. Joseph Göbbels.

    But the new english premier minsiter, Winston Churchill is not about to do something. Because he is well aware, that england on her own can impossibly beat germany, he does everything to gain time and drag russia and the USA into the war.

    Churchill´s policy of war escalation with millions of victims, accorded with the british war doctrine, which the chief ideologist and permanent secretary of state in the british foreign ministry - Sir Robert Vansittart- set as a guideline for all british diplomats in september 1940.

    "The enemy is the German Reich not merely Nazism, and those who have not yet learned this lesson have learned nothing whatsoever.All possibility of compromise has now gone by, and it has got to be a fight to to the finish, and a real finish.We have had more than enough of Dahlerus,Goerdeler , Weissauer and company."
    Hence the british foreign policy in her absolute push for war made no distinguishment between Karl Goerdeler, one of the leading heads of the resistance, and memebers of the national socialist leadership, as Joseph Göbbels.

    On of november, 1940 the soviet foreign minister Wjatscheslaw Molotow travels to vienna to negotiate over more territorial demands of the soviet union. During this visit, Molotov informs Hitler on the soviet demand of a western security zone.

    Parts of this zone would be: Finland, bulgaria, romania, jugoslavia, the strategically important straights of the dardanelles, and the danish baltic sea exit.

    Further expansions of his country, in direction of the indian ocean and the persian gulf, are explicitly not excluded by Molotov.

    Claims, that equate an encirclement of the german reich and that are refused by Hitler as beeing unacceptable. With regard to this development, Hitler makes the decision to atatck the soviet union in order to forestall Stalin´s attack. That he views this drive as a necessary pre- emptive strike, is documented in a diary entry of the german minsiter for propaganda- Joseph Göbbels. Göbbels cites Hitler with the following words:

    "We have to act, moscow will stay out of the war untill europe is exhausted and blead to death. Then stalin wants to act, bolshevize europe and takeover his regiment over europe. We will put a spoke in his wheel. Russia would attack us when we become weak, and then we had the 2-front war, which I will avoid by this pre-emptive action."
    One couldnt have described Stalin´s plans any better. That Hitler calculated correctly, is also supported by the fact, that Stalin after the return of his foreign minister Mlotov, does not set the red army into defensive mode, but attunes her to expansion and attack.

    In complete overrestimation of her own power, fascist italy assaults greece and jugoslavia on oct. 28th, 1940. The campaign develops, similar to the push forward in north africa, into a complete desaster. Between october 1940 and january 1941, the english engage the italians in the balcans and in africa, and defeat them in both theatres. The italian duce, Bennito Mussolini, asks Hitler for german military support.

    As italy must not drop out of the war defeated, Hitler enforcedly sends german troops to africa and the balcan. The germansconquer jugoslavia in 11 days and greece within 3 weeks.
    The german forces in north africa, commanded by Erwin rommel, are able to push the british troops back to the lybian - egyptian border.

    Italy as an ally is saved for the time beeing, but the price is high. The german frontlines get more stretched day by day, the supply lines ever longer. The untill now allied soviet union grows into transforms into a new enemy.
    On may 5th, 1941 Stalin finally ultimately drops the mask: In speech to the graduates of the moscow "fronze"??? military academy he explains:

    "Now, that we have supplied our army sufficiently with modern technology for the battle, we have to switch from defense to attack. The wars with poland and finland were no wars of defense, we already have entered the path of offensive politics- the red army is a mdodern army, and a modern army is an attack army."
    Stalins elaborations are no empty phrases, indeed the share of the military budget of the soviet union´s national product ammounts to 43% at that time.

    Just one day before, the politbureau ordered the construction of 20 new, and the development of 231 already existing airplane runways, which generally were no farther situated than 100km away from the soviet german border.
    On may 15th, georgij shukov, Chairman of the Joined Chiefs of Staff of the red army, informs Stalin on the newest developments on the german russian border, and says:

    "There is the possibility, that germany anticipates us with regard to deployment, and brings a suprise plan into action".
    "To anticipate us with deployment..." telling formulations by a chief of staff, who later on will state, that the red army never had any intention to march westwards...

    Hitler at that time- despite contradicting accounts, is well informed about the soviet deployment. Just one day before Shukov´snd Stalin´s meeting, he informs the german chiefs of staff at lenght on numerous details of the soviets. At an instance, he also hints at the numerous soviet airfields close to the border, that he interprets as a sign for a soon to come invasion.
    Hitler orders the attack to not be overrun himself.

    When his armies, still weakened by the past campaigns and still at war with the british cross the russian border on june 22nd, 1941, they meet mankind´s biggest ever built invasion army:

    Close to 6mio soldiers, more than 25.000 tanks and about 19.000 airplanes have been assembled in order to sweep across western europe.

    The red army, still in a state of deployment against germany, is paralyzed. As the own mine barriers are decomposed, the divisions in offensive mode beeing situated protectionless close to the border, within few months 2mio red armists enter german captivity as prisoners of war.
    While many german miitary figures expect a fast crack down of the soviet union, Hitler remains sceptic. Despite most in his general staff- one of the few exceptions is the creator of the german tank weapon Heinz Guderian- Hitler regards the eastern campaign with concern. To the outside he displays convincement of the own victory, but in small circles he does not deny

    "that the soviet union is as eerie to him, as the ghost ship in the flying dutchman".

    Late summer, 1941. The new russian tank T34, in it´s robustness and weaponry superiour to any german modell, causes bother in the german frontlines. Its armor of up to 7cm vitually turned it invincible. The consequences were rapidly to be felt: In a short timespan the german tank divisions reported a blackout of 20% of their assets.

    German casualities summed up to 86.000 deaths, 295.000 woudned and a further 20.000 missing in action.
    Russian partisans account for a not too inconsiderable allotment of those losse. The partisans fought with extraordinary cruelty against the landsers.

    Their encroachments made no distinction between doctors, medical personell, soldiers and wounded. In all sections of the front captured landsers were discovered, who were murdered with their arms tied to their backs. The documents on those cases of partisan cruelties, prepared by a wehrmacht examination center,which in the same accurate manner reported on german crimes aswell, talk volumes. However till this day not a single case is on the records, that would account for german soldiers maiming prissoners of war physically.

    The execution of soviet partisans belongs also to the controversial issues.
    Partisans, no matter in which country, violate Article 1 of the Hague Land Warfare Convention that declares with 4 criterias the group who is competent to legitimate warfare.
    Therefore executions of Partisans were not in contradiction to the international law and were also executed by the Allies in Germany. It is historically interesting that Lenin cancelled this agreement which was appointed 1907 in the Hague Land

    Warfare Convention as a basis for future wars. The Geneva Convention of 1929, in which the treatment of prisoners is regulated according to international law, the USSR did not even join. As a result the guidelines of the convention were not in the training schedule of the Red Army. So according to international law the Soviet Union was outside the community of states.

    In the far north the attack of the German / Finnish troops came to a deadlock in mid-September. Again and again Lieutenant-General Dietel, who led the operation of the so called "Lapland Army", vainly tried to conquer the railroad from Murmansk to Leningrad. He wanted to stop the onward movement of arriving american arms deliveries to the Soviet Union.

    Murmansk was the only port in the soviet artic circle that is ice-free all year round. Last offshoots of the Gulf Stream avert a freezing even at air temperatures of minus 50 degrees. The war in the nordic forests cause greatest difficulties to the Germans. The brunt of battles was literally borne by the shoulders of the infantry because heavy equipment was hardly useable. Considering the rough terrain and the supply problems involved, never more than 2 german divisions were operating at the front of Lapland.

    So larger military advances were excluded, the fight was determined by raiding party movements and smaller missions- a war in secret.
    When the german offensive was set against Murmansk on 14 October more than 2600 dead and missing people as well as 8000 wounded were mourned on the german side. Ports and railroads remained in Stalins hand during the entire war. Via Murmansk the Americans supplied the Red Army with more than 3000 aircraft, 4000 tanks, hundreds of thousands of vehicles and vast crowds of munition, equipment and food and this only in 1941.

    Mid-Spetember it started to rain in the centre section of the eastern front. On 19 September, the 6th army conquered Kiev, the capital of Ukrainian Sovietrepublik. The battle in the area of Kiev became a fiasco to the soviet side. More than 660,000 Red Army soldiers were taken prisoner.
    2 October 1941, 5:30 clock, beginning of operation "Typhoon". Northeast of Smolensk the "army group center" under Field Marshal Fedor von Bock launched an offensive with 2000 tanks against moscow. The first messages promised a great success, Guderian's armored corps reached Orell, conquered the city, and turned to the north.
    Units of the "second army" came across northeastern of Bryansk, turned south, and become merged with the armored units of the "third and fourth army", which circuit the "Viasma", in the rear of soviet defense forces. 55 divisions of the Red Army were sitting in a huge district, of which there was no escape. While the surrounded soviet troops were worn out, the "fourth and ninth army" pushed further in the direction of Moscow.
    The result of the offensive was devastating for the Red Army: till mid - October approximately 670,000 men were taken in captivity. At the same time the "army group south" of von Rundstedt defeated the "18th soviet army" on the Azov Sea, and captured another 100,000 men. Numbers that pose major problems to the armed forces. Especially in winter 1941-42, hundreds of thousands of prisoners starved. Reason for this was the collapse of the german logistics which caused catastrophic supply shortfalls.

    Jointly responsible for this tragedy was also Stalin's policy of banned earth. According to his command, of 17 November all settlement points along the approach roads to a depth of 40 - 60 and a width of 20 to 30 kilometers were destroyed. So infrastructure was extinguished - friend and enemy are doomed.
    This destructions were conducted on the explicit command of Stalin by soviet chase commands in german loot uniforms, which had to make sure to leave survivors of their extermination, so that they later could report on the "german" atrocities. In this way, the hate against the german occupation armies increased.

    On 9 October when Goebbels suggested a wool collection campaign to the Chief of Army Staff, General Alfred, to help the front in order of the coming winter, the General answered him:

    "In winter? At that time we sit in the warm quarters of Leningrad and Moscow. Let that be only our concern. We have finally and without exaggeration, won this war."

    A few days later the first snowflakes fell on the eastern front -The beginning of the end of the snowstorms; nightly frost and thaw on the day transformed the streets into bottomless morass. Within a few weeks the german eastern army lost about 1/3 of its 500,000 vehicles. On 16 October the temperature dropped to 8 degrees below zero, a strong winter had a firm grip over Russia. To think about long-range movements was not possible. Most of the troops were fighting without winter clothing, at some fronts more soldiers fail by frostbite than by war-related injuries.

    The supply of essential goods collapsed. Railroads could not ride because the boiler were damaged in consequence of inadequate frost protection. The aircraft fell also victim to the icy temperatures. The pilots, who destroyed in 180,000 missions over 15,000 enemy aircraft, 3,200 tanks, 2,400 guns and 58,000 further vehicles in the past 6 months, could not start their machines because the oil in the motors froze.

    On 23 October the Wehmachts-report announced:
    "Despite difficult weather conditions, the outer defensive position of the soviet capital was broken across a broad front in the recent days. Here and there our spearheads have attacked up to 60km to Moscow."
    Despite all the discomforts german units continued fighting, conquered Kharkoff and forced access to the Crimea. In early november Kursk and Feo-Dosia on the Black Sea coast fell in german hand. The number of fallen Germans had increased to 150,000 men. The capture of Rostov on Don by "army group south" on 21 November was estimated in the Wehrmacht report as "important for the continuation of war." There was no talk about a fast victory anymore.
    On Nov 29, 1941 when the German Minister of Munitions, Fritz Todt determined in a confidential conversation with Hitler that the war, in view of the armament of the enemy states, would no longer to be won militarily, he answers him:

    “How am I supposed to end this war? Hardly I don’t see any way to come to an political end."
    At this moment Hitler understood that he is trapped and there is no possibility to escape.
    A bit later Stalin strikes. Against his huge war maschine which produces hundreds of tanks and aircraft every day and which is supported by western industrial nations (especially by America and Great Britain) with all kinds of war material, the german Wehrmacht is chanceless in the long run.

    From then on other powers determine the pace of events. America enters the international political stage more open. Despite its official neutrality the USA have already supported England logistically since 1940.

    In April 1941 american ships started the naval reconnaissance in the atlantic ocean and conveyed their findings about operational areas of german submarines to the British. In July '41 the US-Navy even took over the escort for english convoys there. Hitler forbids the German Navy to proceed against american warships because at that time the USA is officially still a neutral state. Only when Japan opened a campaign against America and thus an ally appears in military conflict, Hitler follows and declares war against the USA on 11 December 1941.

    As well as in World War I, the 4 large opponents stand against Germany once more and again it is the USA that give the decisive factor with their financial power, their technology, their arm industry and their troops.
    The surrender of the "6th army" in Stalingrad and the German Africa Korps in Tunesia, the landing of allied troops in Sicily, the invasion in Normandy, the bombing of german cities and the collapse of the army group at the eastern front indicate the long line of german defeats.

    On 8 May 1945 the german Wehrmacht lay down their arms.

    Again the victors avail oneself of their booty unrestrained. Entire cities are released for looting, hundreds of thousand german patents are expropriated, advanced maschines, weapons and technical equipment are packed in boxes properly and are sent in the USA and Soviet Union.
    German scientists are deported, million of german prisoners of war are conscripted to forced labour for many years. In the east the victors expel million of Germans from their ancestral homeland and billet into their houses.

    The German Reich or better that what was left consisted of 4 colonies now. The victors called them "occupation zone". The north was took over by the British, southwest by the French, the south by Americans and the east by the Russians.
    They agreed quickly in the most important question: Germany is fault for this misery and who is guilty has to pay. They wash their own hands in innocence and, because no one watches them, the blood which stick on their fingers disappears fast and silent in the drain of history.


    Finalizing: I am very well aware that this topic will spark controversy, but more and more people come to the same conclusion as I did:

    Germany was forced into the war.

    Just to name one person of reputation: Pat Buchanan, former presidential adviser of 3 US- presidents basically draw the same conclusions as the text above. You might wanna read his book "The unnecessary War" or search his blog where he posted an essay on the matter.

    Cheers- and at my anglo saxon and polish friends here:
    There was NO NEED to make up a gleiwitz incident by the Nazis- which was never prooven by the way- as the poles delivered more than enuough reasons to be (justifiedly) attacked.

    The british/frensh War guarantees made the polish insanity possible and have to be regarded as an action motivated by a will for war.
    It is those 3 parties that are to be blamed for the outbreak of WW2 on the foremost, and it is the USA which is to be blamed for the outcome- which will now- and I am quoting Pat Buchanan here- possibly mean the death blow for western civilisation.

    All Hitler Germany demanded was an end to the pogroms against it´s ethnic brethren under polish control, a railway and a by 93% german inhabitated city. What Germany offered for this (secure polish borders and access to the sea) was more than generous.

    The often cited "aggresiveness" of the germans ("annexion" of the sudetenlands and austria, invasion of the netherlands, belgium and russia...) were either wanted reunifictations or necessary pre- emptive strikes against war mongering neighbours.

    I spared the backround powers who influenced above nation´s policies towards war.

    Better facing an inconvenient truth than continue living in a comfortable lie.

    Last edited by Amagi; June 23, 2010 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Fixed wrongly used pic

  2. #2
    Comes Limitis
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    Planet Ape

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Pat Buchanan
    No you didn'
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  3. #3
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Oh please.

    The Soviet Army was not an invasion army, the only one who had any credible evidence for that was Viktor Suvorov and it was all circumstantial.
    The Sudeten-Germans could not reunite with the German reich because it had never been a part of it in the first place.
    The Polish and Czech massacres of ethnic Germans were most after German aggression and always purposefully exagerated by German authorities.
    Germany was practically bankrupt on the eve of WW2.

    Should I continue? Basically, my point is that this entire thing is based on presumptions, circumstantial evidence and facts taken out of context.

    P.S. You picked the wrong Roosevelt, that's Teddy buddy. Think you were looking for Franklin.

    P.P.S. The mere fact that you said "holo-thingy" should prove that this thread is a disgrace to modern historical research.
    Last edited by Koelkastmagneet; March 27, 2010 at 05:38 PM.
    ☻ This is a random collection of symbols. He's tired of you abusing him.
    /▌\  Don't copy-paste this if you know what's good for you.
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Also I spared the holo- thingy, which deserves it´s own thread.
    "holo-thingy"? Not terribly funny, sir. Your thesis is dubious at best. Showing such lack of respect to the estimated six million innocent victims of your "holo-thingy" hardly bolsters it.
    Last edited by skh1; March 27, 2010 at 05:40 PM.

  5. #5
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by skh1 View Post
    yeah we all know it was a conspiracy against the master race and the reich by the evil bolschevik jews

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    To support my point of view, I hereby post an excerpt of Dr. Gunther Kümel:

    You have a point with mentioning General Thomas who indeed ardently insisted in preparation for a long war, total war, huge armaments, full use of the authoritarian power the German parliament had conceded to Hitler, economic mobilisation in the broadest sense, "full wartime mobilization of the economy". And as he did not get his way, tried to kill his chancellor.
    And Hitler? He instructed Keitel, that he did not want war, refused to give the orders Thomas demanded. He relied on negotiations since he had the impression to deal with statesmen not insane enough to rebut a fair compromise. Have you ever read the proposals Hitler offered to Poland? No? Perhaps you should do that, it might change your fixed ideas about the evil Hitler and the poor Poles. If any chancellor or even politician in the "republic of Weimar" (that had been reigned in an authoritarian way without concessions of the parliament) had offered such a far reaching compromise, he would have lost his position within two hours. What Hitler offered to Poland can only be compared with the sacrifices of this Willy Brandt to Poland and Russia and Jugoslavia and the Cek, only that Hitler acted in favour of Germany and Willy Brandt as a servant of Allied interests (you remember he was officer of an enemy state). Hitler suggested the reunification of Danzig with the motherland and Danzig was a free state, not property of the Poles.

    The (German) inhabitants of Danzig wanted fervently this reunification (as the inhabitants of Austria, Sudetenland or South Tirol). Poland should retain certain economic privileges she had been granted by the "peace makers" (war mongers) ofVersailles. Germany would not demand the very important industrial area of Upper Silesia (German inhabitated), West Prussia (to a high degree German inhabitated). And Hitler offered a peace pact for 25 years and a guaranty for the frontiers of Poland, which was more or less the promise to defend Poland against a revision by Stalin with respect to "East Poland" recently conquered by Poland and inhabitated mostly by Ukrainians. What Hitler wanted to be honoured with was not more than a highway and a railway line through the "Corridor" (German inhabitated), that separated part of Germany (East Prussia) from the main land. Really, Hitler could not demand less!
    Hitler's fatal mistake was that he trusted the fairness of the British, that he did not fully recognize the threat of the "background powers". And that he tried to reach just aims by way of negotiations. General Thomas was not so naïve, and he was not so pacifistic as Hitler who allowed the British divisions to escape at Dunkirk, just for the purpose not to hurt the British sensitivity. General Thomas was aware of the firm determination of the influential circles in the world (eg the high finance) to destroy the German nation, and therefore he insisted in preparation for a long war of annihilation against the Reich.
    --Dr. Gunther Kümel.

    Face it folks: The
    "mad man wants to conquer da earths and we all hadda must speaked germanz!"
    is stupid hogwash.

    Germany was the only sound nation in the entire war theatre- her biggest crime was, that she abolished the banksters and become economically unchallengable- or as Mike Rivero put it:

    How Hitler rebuilt Germany's economy was simple. He abandoned the fractional reserve banking system that was crippling post-WW1 Germany and instituted a currency with a fixed unit of value. Oddly enough, it was a financial system not very different from that of the United States prior to 1913. This allowed Germany to rebuild quickly, but was of course a direct threat to the bankers who had grown rich and powerful with legalized counterfeiting. This is the reason that "war" (actually a boycott; see attached) was "declared" against Germany. The bankers feared that people everywhere would see the immediate advantages of a non- reserve monetary system and force a change in their own countries. Germany, specifically the German economy, had to be wrecked in order to preserve the fractional reserve banking system everywhere else.
    -Mike Rivero, owner of and jewish

    Read some more interesting facts on da evil Nazis!!! here:
    The myth of german culpability

    The "World War starter" lie beeing told about the germans is just one of many lies that will collapse, all the others will follow- be assured of that.
    Last edited by Amagi; March 27, 2010 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Are there no schools in Germany?, this crap is an insult.

  8. #8
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanny View Post
    this crap is an insult.
    to say the least. It's disturbing that people actually believe that

  9. #9
    tonymurphy1888's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanny View Post
    Are there no schools in Germany?, this crap is an insult.
    + rep took the words right out of my mouth. Blinded by dinial that his ancestors were evil scum.
    Yes, friends, governments in capitalist society are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class.
    -James Connolly

  10. #10
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Vicarius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    To support my point of view, I hereby post an excerpt of Dr. Gunther Kümel:

    --Dr. Gunther Kümel.

    Face it folks: The is stupid hogwash.
    Converting any point anyone who doesn't agree with you into something badly spelled with no real arguments as to somehow disprove them, classy.
    Germany was only sound nation in the entire war theatre- her biggest crime was, that she abolished the banksters and become economically unchallengable- or as Mike Rivero put it:
    Economically unchallengeable, right. The economy magically comes around whenver you "abolish banksters" and start building stuff nobody really needs in an inefficient manner....
    -Mike Rivero, owner of and jewish
    Oh, he's Jewish! Well that changes everything, doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    Read some more interesting facts on da evil Nazis!!! here:
    The myth of german culpability

    The "World War starter" lie beeing told about the germans is just one of many lies that will collapse, all the others will follow- be assured of that.
    Right, the site that basically only attacks the nutjobs who think Germany is an aggressive nation and uses Hitler's propaganda as proof.
    Last edited by Каие; March 28, 2010 at 04:59 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Oh man, you just posted the pic of Teddy Roosevelt, not Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Teddy died 20 years before WWII broke out.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  12. #12
    Davius's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Troofers have become a caricature of themselves.

  13. #13
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    Oh man, you just posted the pic of Teddy Roosevelt, not Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Teddy died 20 years before WWII broke out.
    I already said that about 10 posts back, stop stealing my thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by That Dutch guy View Post
    P.S. You picked the wrong Roosevelt, that's Teddy buddy. Think you were looking for Franklin.
    See? Gimme mah thunder back
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  14. #14

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Who cares? Took a while to get that awfull lot of text into a readable fashion... Say "please" and I might edit it out (or maybe not).

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Haha, you try to be fair to Hitler, but still screw Stalin over

  16. #16
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    Who cares? Took a while to get that awfull lot of text into a readable fashion... Say "please" and I might edit it out (or maybe not).
    I don't really care, I think old Franky would be ashamed to be in such a poorly written and un-sourced essay. (or documentary or whatever tripe you're trying to poison the common sense of the population with)
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  17. #17
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Since I can't be bothered to read the OP, Amagi could you briefly summarise your claims?

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by 0N3 View Post
    Haha, you try to be fair to Hitler, but still screw Stalin over
    Of course I think Stalin was a despictable SOB. Do you know what he did to his own people?

    Lemme bring this to your attention:

    Stalin Directive No. 04218.
    The order, issued November 17, 1941 , also known as the 'Torch-Men Order', decreed that Russian partisans wearing German uniforms - especially uniforms of the Waffen-SS:
    ... shall destroy and set on fire all settlements where German troops are located, to 40-60 km from the main battle front, (namely) 20 to 30 km to both the left and right of the roads ... This incites the people's hatred of the Fascist occupiers and makes it easier to recruit partisans in the Fascists' hinterland. It is important to ensure that there are survivors that can report about the 'German' atrocities. Among the people the report is to be put about that the Germans set towns and villages on fire in order to punish the partisans.
    (Source: Archives Series 429, Roll 461... 3/70 Fr. 6439568,
    Washington National Archives.)

    Needless to say, that the evil fascist Nazis were blamed for decades for these atrocities. Same as the Katyn massacre on some 10- 15.000 poles, which the Nazis were blamed for. Turned out: Soviets did it.

    Not to mention the purposeful mass starvation of the ucranians (holodomor- a PROOVEN program of genocide) in order to sell their grain and corn to get new weapons for his "oh so peaceloving" soviet union.

    Germans did not rape- as their russian and american counterparts (yes you too americans. Ask the french why they hesitate a bit to celebrate the "liberation" of normandy, where your innocent GIs raped frensh civilians). I stick with what I said: The only sound nation in the entire war theatre was Hitler Germany.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysimachus View Post
    Since I can't be bothered to read the OP, Amagi could you briefly summarise your claims?
    You could read my finalization where I tried to give a short summary...
    Last edited by Amagi; March 27, 2010 at 06:11 PM.

  19. #19
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    Of course I think Stalin was a despictable SOB. Do you know what he did to his own people?

    Lemme bring this to your attention:

    Stalin Directive No. 04218.
    The order, issued November 17, 1941 , also known as the 'Torch-Men Order', decreed that Russian partisans wearing German uniforms - especially uniforms of the Waffen-SS:
    (Source: Archives Series 429, Roll 461... 3/70 Fr. 6439568,
    Washington National Archives.)

    Needless to say, that the evil fascist Nazis were blamed for decades for these atrocities. Same as the Katyn massacre on some 10- 15.000 poles, which the Nazis were blamed for. Turned out: Soviets did it.
    So because of one order by Stalin every attrocity the Nazi's ever perpetuated was done by Partisans? Your logic is more incoherent then the average youtube troll.
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  20. #20
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Myth That Germany Triggered WW2

    WHy people even bother with these stupid threads is beyond me. Although I suppose I'm bothering then... consider my bothering a public service then.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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