Back to 1-rank fire?

[Klaus The Prince]

Is there some peculiar reason for which line infantry in NTW fires with the first rank only? I thought the "first rank fire, first rank on one knee, second rank fire, second rank on one knee and so forth" drill was used in the Napoleonic era too.

[Graphic]

According to some of the history nerds here, it wasn't. Fire-by-rank's absence doesn't harm the game (and I'd say it helps it), but if you really want it back there's a tiny mod that gives it to you.

[René Artois]

Fire by rank results in a complete bloodbath in this game, and the battles play out like:

Line infantry stands there.
Line infantry shoots and wipes out everything with it's fire by rank.

[Klaus The Prince]

According to some of the history nerds here, it wasn't. Fire-by-rank's absence doesn't harm the game (and I'd say it helps it), but if you really want it back there's a tiny mod that gives it to you.

It doesn't bother me, but I'm curios about it: "Hey! Did they forget how to do it?" I thought at the first time.

[Graphic]

It doesn't bother me, but I'm curios about it: "Hey! Did they forget how to do it?" I thought at the first time.

Yeah the gist of it from someone was that the commanders didn't like soldiers kneeling because they really wouldn't want to get back up, because they don't want to return to being a gigantic target.

[Yojimbo]

yeah the reason is that ca thorough firing drills were a little too complex for the people they targeted this game at.

[Graphic]

yeah the reason is that ca thorough firing drills were a little too complex for the people they targeted this game at.

I don't see how that makes any sense since fire-by-rank worked all by itself without any action required by the player, except to click on it in the research menu on the campaign map.

I also would have "thorough" someone who makes a habit of insulting the intelligence of people who disagree with him would have a firmer grasp on grade school level grammar and spelling. Guess I thoroughed wrong.

[Yojimbo]

I don't see how that makes any sense since fire-by-rank worked all by itself without any action required by the player, except to click on it in the research menu on the campaign map.

I also would have "thorough" someone who makes a habit of insulting the intelligence of people who disagree with him would have a firmer grasp on grade school level grammar and spelling. Guess I thoroughed wrong.

because it makes almost all units the same, it removes thoughts about formation like how you can put guards in small spaces and have them still be effective because of their platoon fire and how you have to keep line infantry in wide formations so they are effective. the almost total lack of friendly fire really cuts down on thoughts about deployment also.

LOL at your second comment all you do is post stupid images when you cant think of an argument and i though somebody whos so smart that they like etw would know what hyperbole is but it seems you do not, instead preferring to rip on my typing even tho its hard for me to type being legally blind and all.

[Graphic]

I thought you put me on ignore? I knew you really didn't, though.

Guards are still more effective than line because of their accuracy and reload speed, the absence of platoon fire hasn't changed anything in that regard. Guards will still destroy everything in a shoot-out except riflemen and out-of-range skirmishers. Before: guards win with a fancy firing drill that happens automatically. After: guards win by just being way better shooters. Nothing has changed on the player's end, so your claim that it's because CA thought players were too stupid to use firing drills before is false. It would be like saying a car manufacturer dumbed down a car because they changed to a different automatic transmission from another. Also the rate of friendly fire is identical to ETW.

And about hyperbole...make a video of you beating a grand campaign in 30 minutes time. No edits.

You can't. Hyperbolic claim.

Perhaps it's you who doesn't understand what "hyperbole" means.

[Desufer]

Fire by rank results in a complete bloodbath in this game, and the battles play out like:

Line infantry stands there.
Line infantry shoots and wipes out everything with it's fire by rank.

what the are you talking about?

[Elmar]

In this age complicated fire drills had been pretty much been given up upon, as in the stress of combat it tended to go wrong.
I think it was the Prussians who blinked first, ircc. As mentioned above they found that, once kneeling, soldiers rather liked offering a small target and were a devil to get back up. Nor was it entirely safe to let multiple ranks fire past or over the heads of their comrades, with accidental fratricide a real issue. For example the French Guard units were initially trained to fire a massive four rank volley, but in practise they didn't use it as being too dangerous and unwieldy.
Thus typically the firing line was instead made as dense as possible with either soldiers rotating in ad hoc to fire or passing loaded muskets to the front. Ofcourse this doesn't seem to be portrayed in TW.

[Codeman90]

yeah the reason is that ca thorough firing drills were a little too complex for the people they targeted this game at.

Yeah, they removed it JUST to piss you off. The incredibly intelligent, total war gaming god. They dumbed down an AUTOMATIC action (that was difficult to use-wait what?) just to piss you off.

After all, we all know CA sits around trying to find out ways to make the game feel worse to you. I'm assuming you wont like CA until they release Rome 2 like everyone else who hates Napoleon.

[nameless]

Historically speaking and from what the historic nerds have verified, fire-by-rank was more or less eliminated as commanders found it too confusing once the fighting started.

Therefore, it's historically correct to not have it in the game.

Second is for gameplay. As most of us would know playing ETW, there are instances where you have a regiment not fire at all because little john over there needs to reload first and by the time he's ready half of the unit has been wiped out. It also affected the AI as well.

With this it's mainly the second you stop the soldier will immediately open fire and this works well with the square formations.

During ETW there were even mods that removed fire by rank and platoon firing so in either case people aren't happy regardless of what CA does.

I found it's better though in the longer run.

I tried out the mod that removes fire by advance and the AI fights better. Before then the AI would always stick to advanced formations and that would cause it to stutter and stumble. Now it forms battle lines and fight properly. (I never use the advanced formations anyways)

[Yojimbo]

Historically speaking and from what the historic nerds have verified, fire-by-rank was more or less eliminated as commanders found it too confusing once the fighting started.

Therefore, it's historically correct to not have it in the game.

Second is for gameplay. As most of us would know playing ETW, there are instances where you have a regiment not fire at all because little john over there needs to reload first and by the time he's ready half of the unit has been wiped out. It also affected the AI as well.

With this it's mainly the second you stop the soldier will immediately open fire and this works well with the square formations.

During ETW there were even mods that removed fire by rank and platoon firing so in either case people aren't happy regardless of what CA does.

I found it's better though in the longer run.

I tried out the mod that removes fire by advance and the AI fights better. Before then the AI would always stick to advanced formations and that would cause it to stutter and stumble. Now it forms battle lines and fight properly. (I never use the advanced formations anyways)

Why would you want fire by rank removed?

[nameless]

You mean fire by advance?

I'm assuming that's what you meant since I already explained the fire by rank.

If your talking about the mods well ask the modders for ETW. I do recall using some of them (I think Darth was one) and it removed fire by rank.

I do find the reaction time better. Regiment marches, stops, immediately opens fire. Not take like a minute or two to sort itself out before firing and by then it's dead meat.

[Aklis]

Sadly enough, I still haven't played the game (Which is why I'm here all the time), but I can imagine that 1) With increased accuracy on the firearms, people were killed off too quickly, and 2) Now there's actually a point in deploying in two ranks, as the British did in Spain.

Also, if you watch Sharpe, they don't kneel, they just stand in two ranks. Their poor ears, eh?

[RO Citizen]

I like rank fire, but I like the current one better. So plz don't change it!

[SonofSparta]

The current system in Napoleon is quite excellent(With a little tweaking), at first i though i'd miss fire my rank but in all honesty the fire fights are absolutely bloodbaths. If anything.. the accuracy needs to be toned down as too many musketballs hit their mark for my liking. I'm currently working on a mod for myself to lower accuracy across the board, aswell as increase the dispersion of Line musket fire.

[Hinkel]

There are so many mods which adds fire by rank..

[BruceR]

Lots of historical evidence for two-rank fire and two-rank platoon fire in this period, though. Agree "fire and advance" and "fire by rank" would be fratricide waiting to happen IRL. In a perfectly historical system, if you believe Griffith, et al:

1) Your first volley would be a simultaneous two ranker, delivered something like a broadside, with single rank desultory fire after that (not sure how you'd even do that as a game mechanic, just saying; some kind of a "hold fire"/"fire at will" toggle, maybe); and
2) Elite units could platoon fire more or less as in ETW, but FaA and FBR would largely be stricken. Nifty animations, but not practical.

Agree kneeling rank fire isn't historic outside the square (where your officers are trying to root you in place). Takes longer to load, and you'd have to be a brave SoB to stand up again.