New Units and Lizardmen Faction suggestions

[Lachdanan]

Congrats once again for this great mod!

I was reading the Games Workshop site (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...tCatGameStyle=) for some info on the Warhammer universe and stumbled across some units that would be great to add to the mod imho. Some of them (you can see their appearence and more of them browsing through the link I just provided):

Beastmen (playing as empire I fought them many times and they are currently weak, imo, however some cavalry could change that)

1- Beastmen Tuskgor Chariot (chariot unit);
2- Chaos Warhounds (cavalry, could affect morale);
3- Beastmen Centigors (a kind of centaur that serves the role of cavalry too);
4- Razorgor (big wild boar could be cool to add a unit with some huge creatures)
5- Giant (huge siege/artillery unit kinda like Ents).

Empire

1- Empire Steamtank (would be some kind of huge very resistant "cannon");
2- Flagellants (morale immune, kinda of zombie but with better stats).

Also there's the cool Lizardmen faction that has dinosaur and jungle creatures as inspiration for their units. Maybe they could be added on a future version?

[Blackomur89]

Congrats once again for this great mod!

I was reading the Games Workshop site (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...tCatGameStyle=) for some info on the Warhammer universe and stumbled across some units that would be great to add to the mod imho. Some of them (you can see their appearence and more of them browsing through the link I just provided):

Beastmen (playing as empire I fought them many times and they are currently weak, imo, however some cavalry could change that)

1- Beastmen Tuskgor Chariot (chariot unit);
2- Chaos Warhounds (cavalry, could affect morale);
3- Beastmen Centigors (a kind of centaur that serves the role of cavalry too);
4- Razorgor (big wild boar could be cool to add a unit with some huge creatures)
5- Giant (huge siege/artillery unit kinda like Ents).

Empire

1- Empire Steamtank (would be some kind of huge very resistant "cannon");
2- Flagellants (morale immune, kinda of zombie but with better stats).

Also there's the cool Lizardmen faction that has dinosaur and jungle creatures as inspiration for their units. Maybe they could be added on a future version?

Lizardmen are in development.

Beastmen:

1. Chariots are to bugy at the moment.
2. They are already in but they use the warhound model and because you can have two units that use the same model, squigs took their place. Same thing with white lions.
3. Not possible.
4. Also not possible.
5. Maybe in the future.

Empire:

1. Would make the game off balanced.
2. Explain, maybe give a concept.

[Lachdanan]

Thanks for listening.

Plz feel free to merge this thread with the new units thread if you like.

It's great to know Lizardmen are in development .

About the units you can't really add the centaurs or boars? I thought so since there are many "exotic" units already like the demons from chaos and it would make the Beastmen more challenging.

About the empire unit Flagellant they are religious fanatics (pro-sigmar) driven insane by war, disaster and the prospect of the end of times. Info from Games Workshop:

"Flagellants fight in a crazed frenzy, heedless of danger they form an unbreakable block of infantry. They can take a charge from hard hitting units such as knights, chariots or monsters and remain resolute. You can use them to hold a flank or anchor your centre."

From this they could be a berzerker unit like the one from RTW or a unit that never routs since they are sure that if they flee they die anyway. Picture:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However I do realize empire is already balanced, and I would prioritize adding units to Beastmen faction and development of Lizardmen and Skaven like you guys are doing yes?

[Blackomur89]

Thanks for listening.

Plz feel free to merge this thread with the new units thread if you like.

It's great to know Lizardmen are in development .

About the units you can't really add the centaurs or boars? I thought so since there are many "exotic" units already like the demons from chaos and it would make the Beastmen more challenging.

About the empire unit Flagellant they are religious fanatics (pro-sigmar) driven insane by war, disaster and the prospect of the end of times. Info from Games Workshop:

"Flagellants fight in a crazed frenzy, heedless of danger they form an unbreakable block of infantry. They can take a charge from hard hitting units such as knights, chariots or monsters and remain resolute. You can use them to hold a flank or anchor your centre."

From this they could be a berzerker unit like the one from RTW or a unit that never routs since they are sure that if they flee they die anyway. Picture:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However I do realize empire is already balanced, and I would prioritize adding units to Beastmen faction and development of Lizardmen and Skaven like you guys are doing yes?

I like the fanatics, I hope the team will consider adding them.

As for the centaurs and the boar. Centaurs are impossible to make because of the M2TW engine there is no way to modify any unit to them. As for the giant boars they would use the war hound model as a base and it is already taken, that is why there are no chaos hounds or white lions.

The rest of the factions still in development will be put in a whole new campaign and I'm sorry for doing this to you but I wouldn't expect them until the year 2011.

[saffronbuyer]

Actually Centaurs are possible but in a round-about way. The great Eothese himself had suggested it as a possibility - The mount is made headless and the rider with invisible legs is offset to sit on the shoulder. He will perform all actions like lance-charging, swordfighting and archery (for which all animations exist). The problem apparently is that those actions make it very ugly (when the rider crouches or turns to fire an arrow, a gap will appear between rider and mount). Perhaps a shroud with a fur texture can be rigged around the torso so that the gap will not show.

The second option is obviously making a brand new set of animations.

Both will take a ton of work. Which just makes me appreciate the hard work this team has done.

[Ozzmosis]

For the centaurs, it may take some imaginative modeling, but is there any specific reason why centaurs are not viable? is it not possible to move the "rider" further forwards (IIRC there was/is a bug where chaos knights are standing on top of their mounts. could this not be exploited and turned into centaurs? :p

[Blackomur89]

Actually Centaurs are possible but in a round-about way. The great Eothese himself had suggested it as a possibility - The mount is made headless and the rider with invisible legs is offset to sit on the shoulder. He will perform all actions like lance-charging, swordfighting and archery (for which all animations exist). The problem apparently is that those actions make it very ugly (when the rider crouches or turns to fire an arrow, a gap will appear between rider and mount). Perhaps a shroud with a fur texture can be rigged around the torso so that the gap will not show.

The second option is obviously making a brand new set of animations.

Both will take a ton of work. Which just makes me appreciate the hard work this team has done.

Yes but then animations get in the way and it is impossible to fully merge the headless horse and the legless rider there will always be a little of empty space between them...

For the centaurs, it may take some imaginative modeling, but is there any specific reason why centaurs are not viable? is it not possible to move the "rider" further forwards (IIRC there was/is a bug where chaos knights are standing on top of their mounts. could this not be exploited and turned into centaurs? :p

I's not a thing of modeling but of the engine of the game.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Actually Centaurs are possible but in a round-about way. The great Eothese himself had suggested it as a possibility - The mount is made headless and the rider with invisible legs is offset to sit on the shoulder. He will perform all actions like lance-charging, swordfighting and archery (for which all animations exist). The problem apparently is that those actions make it very ugly (when the rider crouches or turns to fire an arrow, a gap will appear between rider and mount). Perhaps a shroud with a fur texture can be rigged around the torso so that the gap will not show.

We are actually working on this for Myth: Total War and we found a problem with that. If a centaur is the general, then the general will be sitting on a headless horse.

[Lachdanan]

What about making a Beastmen mounted on a Wild Boar (small razorgor)? You already have troops mounted on bears so I think that would be a possible solution to add more spice to the Beastmen faction!

You could add a skirmisher unit too that throws spears and archer unit, even though I don't know if they would be true to the lore of that faction.

Also, you could add Harpies instead of Centaurs to the role of cavalry. You see theres the unit "Screamers of Tzeentch" that hover around the Battlefield.

Harpies on Warhammer universe (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat340011a&prodId=prod650003a):

"Harpies are particularly loathsome Children of Chaos, winged creatures with a body that is a parody of that of a human woman. Bestial and savage creatures, their steel like tendons lend them a preternatural speed and agility. They are scavengers and opportunists who prey upon the sick, battle-worn and dying."

Picture:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So they could hover around the ground to emulate a low altitude flight and serve the role of cavalry. To that end make them a fast unit. Don't know if it is possible to make flapping wings. I wouldn't mind if they are made still though.

[Vaz]

Harpies IIRC are Dark Elven? They may be for the Beastmen, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

I think the GW design team went away with the whole Idea of "Cavalry" in the beastmen, mainly because they are beastmen, as in warped together. Such "cavalry" are the Centigors, or human cavalry warped to fit their mount.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Harpies is a part off the dark elf army

[Lachdanan]

I'd favor the centaurs as cavalry too, don't know if it's doable though.

Are Harpies part of the Dark Elves army? Uhhm strange. I mentioned them because they are on the Beastmen army section of the Games Workshop site listed under one of their Special Units (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...tCatGameStyle=).

Lorewise they seem to accompany Dark Elf armies so I don't know .

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

I'd favor the centaurs as cavalry too, don't know if it's doable though.

Are Harpies part of the Dark Elves army? Uhhm strange. I mentioned them because they are on the Beastmen army section of the Games Workshop site listed under one of their Special Units (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...tCatGameStyle=).

Lorewise they seem to accompany Dark Elf armies so I don't know .

Oh yeah sorry dude
I forgot that its in the new book right
but they are all so in Dark elfs ^^

[Lachdanan]

Hey no problem .

Maybe we could even have Beastmen as a playable faction if centaurs are added both as cavalry and mounted archers!? Their models are so cool!