Submarines

**♔ brucedickenson♔** · March 16, 2010, 03:54 PM

Maybe if submarines could appear in game it would be as an 'agent' that could be attached to fleets, to cause some damage before a battle begins?

**Marshy** · March 16, 2010, 03:58 PM

Well the first submarine was the turtle which was one manned and used by the Americans to sabotage British ships. So it could happen but, it wasn't common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(submarine)

**Red Hue** · March 16, 2010, 04:22 PM

There was a submarine tech in 1.1 of ETW. I don't know if it built anything but it was gone by 1.2

**Stress Case** · March 16, 2010, 04:48 PM

Maybe they'll merge the Silent Hunter series with Total War...

**♔ brucedickenson♔** · March 16, 2010, 07:03 PM

Do you guys think that a sub should be an agent, rather than a ship which could be moved during battle?

**General_Meevious** · March 16, 2010, 08:28 PM

There was a submarine tech in 1.1 of ETW. I don't know if it built anything but it was gone by 1.2

Gone? Surely it's just hidden. =P

**hellas1** · March 16, 2010, 08:53 PM

@General_Meevious,

Crack the code, find the egg brother!

hellas1

**Lord Nova** · March 16, 2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by brucedickenson

Do you guys think that a sub should be an agent, rather than a ship which could be moved during battle?

I think subs have no place on the battlemap since most were mainly used in sabotage missions. Also because of this I see no reason for them to be included since the rake/spy fills this role rather nicely in sabotaging ports. Also subs are coastal so making them a unit that can cross the oceans would be silly unless you attached the sub to a frigate but even then it's more micromanaging then it's worth.

However maybe a sub could work like the hot air balloon works and if your admiral has the sub ability then there's a chance some of the ships he will fight in the battle will be damaged but that's still pushing it. My knowledge of subs in this time period is limited but I'm sure the majority of submarines used were mainly on ships at port so having them involved in a battle in the middle of the ocean would be unrealistic. That is until some person with an interest in Submarines proves me wrong by quoting 1 obscure battle that no one but subby junkies would know about.

**Aeneas Veneratio** · March 17, 2010, 04:27 AM

During ETW and NTW timeperiod...

The first military submarines
The first military submarine was Turtle (1775), a hand-powered egg-shaped device designed by the American David Bushnell to accommodate a single person. It was the first verified submarine capable of independent underwater operation and movement, and the first to use screws for propulsion. During the American Revolutionary War, Turtle (operated by Sgt. Ezra Lee, Continental Army) tried and failed to sink the British warship HMS Eagle, flagship of the blockaders in New York harbor on September 7, 1776.
In 1800, France built a human-powered submarine designed by American Robert Fulton, the Nautilus. The French eventually gave up on the experiment in 1804, as did the British when they later considered Fulton's submarine design.
During the War of 1812, in 1814, Silas Halsey lost his life while using a submarine in an unsuccessful attack on a British warship stationed in New London harbor.

If it was implemented in any way, the usage of submarines should have a very slow success rate.

**Petrov** · March 17, 2010, 04:30 AM

Submarines????? I know they were invented in like the 1600s but i dont t hink any countrys ever used them effectively in Warfare until WW1

**Aeneas Veneratio** · March 17, 2010, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Petrov

Submarines????? I know they were invented in like the 1600s but i dont t hink any countrys ever used them effectively in Warfare until WW1

The Confederates sunk one Union ship in 1864 using a submarine.

**♔DoomBunny666♔** · March 17, 2010, 04:50 AM

Sort of a sea based Rake, able to sabotage ships and docks, that would be good, but they would have to be expensive and need a lot of tech...

**Petrov** · March 17, 2010, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio

The Confederates sunk one Union ship in 1864 using a submarine.

Really? I had no idea, thats really surprising, Even though it was only one ship, Thanks for the info

**Red Hue** · March 17, 2010, 05:13 AM

This is the first successful use of a submarine in combat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._H...28submarine%29

And this gets you started on their history.

http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAone.htm

Interestingly, in ETW I think the tech belonged to the Ottomans. While they may have had some diving bells, I don’t think they ever developed an independent submersible.

**Lord Nova** · March 17, 2010, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Petrov

Really? I had no idea, thats really surprising, Even though it was only one ship, Thanks for the info

To my knowledge that was probably the most success any nation got from a Submarine pre 1900s. Submarines back then either used drills or explosives to sabotage ships but the H.L. Hunley was the first sub to completely sink a warship.

**Red Hue** · March 17, 2010, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Nova

To my knowledge that was probably the most success any nation got from a Submarine pre 1900s. To be fair it wasn't submerged at the time.

The ship was a blockader and not docked.

It was a five mile haul for the crew of Hunley moving out to sea. And done with a hand cranked prop.

Only the conning tower was above water. (about 1 foot) because the use of a periscope was not yet though of and they had to see the target.

The torpedo was a fixed mine on the end of a boom.

**Lord Nova** · March 17, 2010, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Red Hue

The ship was a blockader and not docked.

It was a five mile haul for the crew of Hunley moving out to sea. And done with a hand cranked prop.

Only the conning tower was above water. (about 1 foot) because the use of a periscope was not yet though of and they had to see the target.

The torpedo was a fixed mine on the end of a boom.

Damn you got me before I could complete my edit.... lucky you

**♔ brucedickenson♔** · March 17, 2010, 08:52 AM

I think the sub would have to be expensive and require quite some research.. It could be there if you wanted it but not essential, a little like ironclads; a bit of fun added to the game!