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Thread: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

  1. #1

    Default Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    I play vanilla on the hardest level.

    I have not messed with the fire and advance button yet. By the time my men are in position to fire they are shooting and dropping like flies or, it’s time to charge them in to give the cavalry a chance to flank.

    And diamond formation doesn’t seem to hit home like a good line up on the enemies flank with standard Calvary formation. Is it junk?

    Can anyone who plays vanilla on hard let me know their tactics and if they use fire and advance or diamond formation please?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    I don't use either. Both seem completely worthless.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Should have kept Fire by Rank...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Diamond formation isn't entirely useless. It does seem to increase mobility by allowing quicker direction change, but I generally don't use it.

  5. #5
    eregost's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Diamond formation is great in melee fights be it against infantry or cavalry as it cuts through the enemy splitting them up and making them less effective. However if you want to cause maximum casualties on the charge then pull out a long line is the better option.
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  6. #6
    CerealGuy's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    i like wedge better than diamond so i never research it
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Fire and advance is useful for units with a good charge (Grenadiers and Russians come to mind) because if you issue an attack command rather than leaving them to fire at will, the unit charges after the last line has fired. As for diamond formation I don't use it much, except in certain circumstaces such as when I have a narrow gap in my own units I'd like to charge through, or if I want to punch a hole in the enemy ranks. It can be effective to first form your units into a two or three line formation and THEN switch to diamond, because then once you've used diamond to punch your hole you can toggle back to line and the unit will spread out, further splitting the victim unit. Sometimes the novelty formations are best strategically implemented for very short periods of time in conjunction with standard formations. This however requires a lot of micromanagement.

    Edit: Fire and advance is also VERY useful for the Russians, who have a great charge bonus but a rather lackluster reload skill. Each man in a fire-and-advance drill fires his musket only once: thus he does not need to reload until after the melee, and thus his reload skill does not factor into the equation at all.
    Last edited by StrawberryDUTCH; March 13, 2010 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Fire and advance is very useful if the unit is firing on an enemy's flank. If you put a regiment into range of the enemy and have them enter fire and advance mode, but don't designate a specific target, they will go through the drill with all ranks firing, then return to their original position and repeat the drill; in this manner they will keep up near constant volleys on the enemy (and it actually is a few seconds faster than ETW's fire by rank due to the faster reload times in NTW). The morale hit is pretty significant and will quickly rout any unit that cannot respond to the fire. Using fire and advance with a specific target has the unit commence a charge after the last rank has fired, and like others have noted, it is very useful for Russia. Be advised though, that when a unit is in fire and advance mode, their range is shortened by about 10 or 20 meters, so you need to be slightly closer than usual for your units to engage.

    Diamond formation is extremely useful when you need to perform a cavalry charge that is near-parallel to the enemy line, as the flank of a line presents a very thin target to charge normally. Another use is for diamond is when you simply want your horsemen to go through an enemy line. Why would you want to do this? Well, imagine that your opponent has a line of infantry guarding a line of howitzers. If you move your own infantry into range to absorb the first volley of the enemy, your cavalry is then free to run straight through the enemy line in order to reach the howitzers. A cavalry unit in diamond will be able to force its way through the enemy line with a much lower likelihood of being pulled into a melee with the infantry.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Don't use the diamond. Use the Fire & Advance sparingly, usually when my line is facing lower quality enemy units that may have a lower rate of fire or will break easily with casualities.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Diamond is mainly best on enemy cav, youll wipe out their centre before the others can react...

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    I find fire and advance VASTLY superior for several reasons. For one your units spread out slightly so they take up more space, spreading the line to make flanking maneouvers harder for your opponent. The fact all of your troops get to fire (not just the front rank) means you are firing a greater number of shots in the same time, which means higher casualties from the enemy... I can't understand why you WOULDN'T want that... there are no drawbacks to F&A and I've just given two benefits (plus the Ruskie charge, also effective with other nations against weakened or inferior units, makes a total of three).

  12. #12
    TheAussieDigger's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    for one
    fire by rank taken out was a good thing

    never use fire and advance; useless imo
    i occasionally use diamond formation. its effective if ure planning on charging multiple inf units one after the other. in diamond the cav makes an easy paht through the infantry unit after the initial charge, so they wont get caught up in melee


  13. #13
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    fire and advance + grenadiers = win

  14. #14

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey_MkII View Post
    There are no drawbacks to F&A and I've just given two benefits (plus the Ruskie charge, also effective with other nations against weakened or inferior units, makes a total of three).
    The one (and sometimes it can be a big one) disadvantage is that it takes a unit in fire and advance drill a little bit longer to set up. Every man has to get in place before the shooting starts, empire style. That's why it's best to use it either offensively when the unit in question isn't taking lead, or defensively when your men stand in formation until the enemy comes into range.

  15. #15
    Faiakas's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Diamond formation is all about how easy you can change your direction when this is needed.The diamond formation is helpfull espesially for light cavalry. Idea is to avoid the contact with enemies counter heavy cavalry. Hit and run attacks with Light cavalry (Hussars) and with the Diamond ability they can escape without suffer casualties.
    Fire and Advance is good if you want to go in a melee fight after getting some shooting. Better works for Grenadiers with the ability of throwing grenades.
    A tactic that is used here is to be stationaty and shooting the enemy infantry. When they get closer change to Advance and go melee and decimate them.
    Last edited by Faiakas; March 15, 2010 at 02:48 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    I do not use any of them. Too bad there is no fire by rank any more...
    Fire and advance could be good, but because it changes the formation of unit I am having a hard time with managing it properly...And I am just too lazy to try more and try again. And firing only from the first rank of line seems to work very good so I do not see the need for fire and advance drill.
    "When your opponent fears you, then's the moment when you give the fear its own rein, give it the time to work on him. Let it become terror. The terrified man fights himself. Eventually, he attacks in desperation. That is the most dangerous moment, but the terrified man can be trusted usually to make a fatal mistake."

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    You're quite right DUTCH, I was mistaken. The lag for lining up as well as the slight reduction in range and arc of fire are flaws, so it's prob best to use F&A as a support strategy on distracted units. In this case however, it can be deadly, and grenadiers love it.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    I use fire and advance quite a bit. I have a column of infantry in fire and advance mode with guard mode turned off and fire at will turned off. They are covered by a line of light infantry while they advance. I then have them target individual units in the enemy line sending one in after another until I get to the old guard at the rear. It's quite fun and a good change from the same old boring form a thin line and shoot at the enemy routine.

    Also I try to soften up the enemy line as much as possible before sending in the infantry by using five 12 pounder artillery units. Helps them break faster.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Greetings!

    F&A reduces the range of fire. Do not use it.
    Diamond seems to be handy when I want to manouver a cavalry unit through gaps to attack the rear. When charging, however, I prefer 3 line deep formation.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Does Anyone Use Fire and Advance or Diamond Formation?

    Try Diamond to make a hole follow by a single rank fire and advance to shoot the flanks of the unit and then charge it with your line/grenadier unit. Also cavalry can easily pass through you line/grenadier units in F&A because of their spread out nature. However units in F&A are vulnerable to charges in general.

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