Non Sufficient Funds

[hannibalic]

I've never fielded 20 units in etw or ntw. Why don't they give us more fundage? I personaly don't want to bring any useless militia because I think meatshields are an exploit. Why not give us enough funds to make a full army? What's the point of being able to upgrade if you wont be able to afford to anyway? I think we should have enough to make a militia free balanced army with a little left over to upgrade some units with. Is it just me?

[Hekko]

That way high-price units would dominate since you can take them, and still not be outnumbered, hence cheap units will become useless.
Too low funds will make high priced units useless since you will make yourself ountnumbered silly by taking one of them. Hence the best course of action is to provide enough funds to have expensive units as a viable option, whilst still giving players the ability to go for quantity over quality.

[hannibalic]

As it is I can only afford one guard unit unless I want to bring less than 17 units. I'm not saying double the money, but another 3k would be nice. That wouldn't allow people to spam guards and it would probably get rid of the meatshield bs.With the funds now, you can't even bring one guard unit and still afford to bring 20 units without like 1/5 of your force being militia.

[LiN]

still afford to bring 20 units without like 1/5 of your force being militia.

You're able to build a 20 unit army using only 2 militia units instead of linemen? Tell me your secrete please.

[hannibalic]

?....1/5 of 20 units = 4 units

[WilliamRedrup]

You're able to build a 20 unit army using only 2 militia units instead of linemen? Tell me your secrete please.

Facepalm

[Player2]

To an extent i agree but the Russian milita isnt that bad

[aletoledo]

if there was enough money to fill out 20 units without taking some militia, then why would anyone ever take militia? They might as well of never created the unit then. If that happened, then everyone would avoid taking the second weakest unit and complain about not enough money to be able to get a full 20 without taking that unit. At some point you have to stop.

You might not like militia, but they can serve a role. Limiting money therefore rewards the players that can find a role for these cheap units. Just think of the situation in reverse. If you can be happy with only a couple guard units, then be just as happy with a couple line units and the remaining ones will be militia. I dislike miltia as well, but when I think of things this way, I respect the abilities of a line unit and don't treat them as the throw-away unit that others might. My throw-away unit is militia.

Still I agree a bit, it would be nice to take a huge, fully upgraded army. experience is rather pointless in multiplayer, since you have to sacrifice it to have more units.

[TheAussieDigger]

the point of the costs being the way they are is so that theres a tactical side to army composition. quality vs quantity

ur idea would ruin MP imo

[{GODS}Scipio_Africanus]

So, you haven't thought of using militia as a replacement for line infantry? Or do you think that that is bs too? I barely use my militia as meatshields anymore, I use it more to extend my line so that my elites don't have to dwell where my regular line infantry was going to be. I am able to bring 2 Old Guards, 2 Young Guards, 2 national Guards, 1 Militia, 2 Fusiliers, 1 of the DLC line inf, 1 DLC Light inf, 4 Chasseurs, 3 Lancers, and a normal general. 19 troops, 5 of them elite inf. If you want to bring a good no fixed army, it varies depending on the map but I am still able to get usually 3 elite infantry.

P.S. I haven't lost with this army but I only use it on Italian Grasslands and mostly against noobs for fun. My other builds depend on the enemy and the map.

[hannibalic]

if there was enough money to fill out 20 units without taking some militia, then why would anyone ever take militia? They might as well of never created the unit then. If that happened, then everyone would avoid taking the second weakest unit and complain about not enough money to be able to get a full 20 without taking that unit. At some point you have to stop.

You might not like militia, but they can serve a role. Limiting money therefore rewards the players that can find a role for these cheap units. Just think of the situation in reverse. If you can be happy with only a couple guard units, then be just as happy with a couple line units and the remaining ones will be militia. I dislike miltia as well, but when I think of things this way, I respect the abilities of a line unit and don't treat them as the throw-away unit that others might. My throw-away unit is militia.

Still I agree a bit, it would be nice to take a huge, fully upgraded army. experience is rather pointless in multiplayer, since you have to sacrifice it to have more units.

My point exactly. No one would take militia. Imo militia has no place in mp. It's a garrison unit. I wouldn't complain about having to take line infantry, because they actually have a use other than dying. As far as what point to stop...stop after getting rid of militia.

I'm not saying I want 100k, and I'm not saying I want a fully upgraded army. All I want is to be able to field 20 functioning units. It would be nice to have no throw away units.

the point of the costs being the way they are is so that theres a tactical side to army composition. quality vs quantity

ur idea would ruin MP imo

How would this change if you got rid of militia? Why cant the quality vs quantity be guard vs line infantry? Imo it would improve mp.

So, you haven't thought of using militia as a replacement for line infantry? Or do you think that that is bs too? I barely use my militia as meatshields anymore, I use it more to extend my line so that my elites don't have to dwell where my regular line infantry was going to be. I am able to bring 2 Old Guards, 2 Young Guards, 2 national Guards, 1 Militia, 2 Fusiliers, 1 of the DLC line inf, 1 DLC Light inf, 4 Chasseurs, 3 Lancers, and a normal general. 19 troops, 5 of them elite inf. If you want to bring a good no fixed army, it varies depending on the map but I am still able to get usually 3 elite infantry.

No I haven't thought of using militia as a replacement for infantry. I think of a replacement at something that can perform the task of what it is replacing. If I had militia in my line I would consider it a hole. I don't really know what you mean with the tactic you described. It sounds like you are replacing your elites with militia, but I don't really understand I guess. As far as that build goes, I wouldn't consider it balanced since you have no heavy cavalry.

[blonkers1234]

If you fielded an entire army of 700 dollar units, you would have 20 average units as your army.
If you got 1 1000 dollar guard instead of 1 700 dollar unit, you must compensate by buying a cheaper unit as another one of your 700 units(such as militia).
Like the aussie digger said, quantity vs quality.
I find the game very balanced in this aspect.

[bushranger]

I would at least like the option of a big money game,but you would need a cap on elite units for it.
If anyone played ETW in the early days you would no why.

[hannibalic]

If you fielded an entire army of 700 dollar units, you would have 20 average units as your army.
If you got 1 guard instead of 1 700 dollar unit, you must compensate by buying a cheaper unit as another one of your 700 units(such as militia).
Like the aussie digger said, quantity vs quality.
I find the game very balanced in this aspect.

I understand the quality vs quantity thing. What I don't understand is why people think getting rid of militia would change this. Like I said...why can't the quality vs quantity be guard vs line, or cheap cavalry vs expensive cavalry? Or whatever units you decide to upgrade vs ....etc

[blonkers1234]

I understand the quality vs quantity thing. What I don't understand is why people think getting rid of militia would change this. Like I said...why can't the quality vs quantity be guard vs line, or cheap cavalry vs expensive cavalry? Or whatever units you decide to upgrade vs ....etc

Well I use militia in my main line usually, can hold against enemy units while my more important units flank or just to draw attention away from another part of the battlefield(if guards and gen are close to militia, can be as handy as line).
14k is perfect for price balance, but 16k could appease people wanting more money.

[hannibalic]

Well I use militia in my main line usually, can hold against enemy units while my more important units flank or just to draw attention away from another part of the battlefield(if guards and gen are close to militia, can be as handy as line).
14k is perfect for price balance, but 16k could appease people wanting more money.

I can't see them holding for very long, especially when cavalry is involved. I would think inspiration would be better used on quality units . Like instead of inspiring a crap unit to be average you could inspire an average unit to be exceptional. As far as using them to draw attention, I can't really see that working unless your opponent didn't realize they were militia or just didn't know any better. Not saying I still don't fall for it on occasion.

Another thing they could do to keep the balance is limit elites like bushranger said.

[blonkers1234]

I can't see them holding for very long, especially when cavalry is involved. I would think inspiration would be better used on quality units . Like instead of inspiring a crap unit to be average you could inspire an average unit to be exceptional. As far as using them to draw attention, I can't really see that working unless your opponent didn't realize they were militia or just didn't know any better. Not saying I still don't fall for it on occasion.

Another thing they could do to keep the balance is limit elites like bushranger said.

Militia can force the enemy into engaging them, you wouldnt allow 2 militia to hit your flank and leave them would you? the time they can take away from enemy units so yours can previal is invaluable, plus if you use uber miltia like fencibles or portugese militia(which have 35 accuracy, 25 reload each) then their gonna stand alot longer against enemys and can combat enemy line.
Having miltia as cav killers is fairly helpful how cheap they are, so keep behind your lines and they will shoot any cav that charge against your main line, even caribneers get killed by bullets.
Militia are most vunerable unsupported, (if you put them into your main line) keep them in the middle and/or next to a guard unit. Quite like having a young guard on each flank, an old guard in the middle and 2 national guard on either side of the old. Is very effective and usually use Napoleon for the sake of it(check danius' borodino vid if you don't believe me).
Hope this helped.

[Von Kickyourass]

i usually use one or two militia. I can afford a 19 or 20 units army ( i forget which) with 4 prussian foot guards and 5 line. I just use cheaper cav like lancers. Also not using skirmishers helps.

[Hekko]

I don't see how having an army consisting of 20 units is a God given right? It's very possible to field an army containing 20 units, if one finds that important. If one does not like militia then one does not have to use it, personaly I do not use militia and I do perfectly fine without it. Thing is that one can't have ones cake and eat it, so either bring militia or other cheap units and get to the 20 unit cap, or just bring better units, and live without having 20 different units.

[eleftherios]

Militia can get pretty effective if they get the first shot you just deploy them to restrict your ooponents center so that it cannot support either of his flanks without getting shot at. This tactic works wonders if you field powerfull fanking units of heavy cavalry/artillery or even skirmishers and focus them in either flank to crush him there, while your militias range of fire get in the way. Maybe you send your skirmishers to the center to restict his movement and then withdraw them to your cheap line, while his center gets its flnaks exposed to your superior flanking force as he persues your center. Finally powerful generaals provide a powerful passive moral bonus to units nearby without the need to use abilities, making the cheap militia the unit to go in and take the shots. That way your elite units can avoid taking the devastating initial volley and can open fire to his more powerful units.