Are Naval Battles superseded by Land Engagements?

[MaKoS]

What I mean is I have finished the Italian campaign and ofcourse there were no naval engagements, I can understand that. I haven't tried the Egyptian one, though.

I am now one and a half year in the French GC and I did not have one single slugfest with any enemy fleet. Land battles are plentiful and with a huge variety of maps, enemies and army sizes. But when it comes to Naval Engagements nothing, except if I actively search for an engagement.

Even the Brits who should have tried to engage my fleet have not even tried to blockade any of my trading ports. Such a measure would have crippled my economy and ofcourse would contribute for many naval battles. I am currently occuping all Med. & Afirca trade nodes.

I am playing Camp:H Battles:N (H/N)

I am very frustrated because i have a sweet spot for naval warfare.
What is your opinion on the matter, is your experience different than mine??

PS: I know that the game is named "NAPOLEON" and not "NELSON" but there were many famous naval battles in the era covered.

[♔ brucedickenson♔]

I think maybe if you want to in the main European map you can engage in lots of naval warfare, or as a little manually as you want

[R.G.S.]

Playing as GB, about a year and a half in, N/N. Destroyed the French and Spanish fleets off the coast of Portugal on turn 2 or 3 with ease. Since then not seen anything much at all...

I have all the western and northern trade nodes and all those covering the western half of North Africa also. According to the prestige tab France and the Otts have a bigger navy than me but I've not seen any sign of either.

I too enjoy the naval warfare and hope that more battles will be forthcoming.

[MaKoS]

It was inteintonal on my behalf no to occupy the sum of all the trade nodes so that the other naval powers could benefit. Bot no joy...

I have not engaged the only big fleet of the game (which i have seen) the English because it has done nothing to prevent or harass any of my fleet movements or trade lanes.

In the two last turns it transported a full stack of a well balanced army to Denmark and now it is curently laying siege to the French Wurtember. I kind of left the fleet unhindered just to observe the first over the sea landing of the English on the Continent.

Adding to that I think that the Pirates in ETW gave a nice spicy flavor to the game, witht their huge Galleon laden fleets.

[R.G.S.]

Yeah, another issue I've encountered and mentioned a few times here is that the map has been cropped too tightly around the coastlines, resulting in unrealistic naval choke points being created by nothing other then the edge of the world (e.g. Portugal). There just isn't that much sea + what is there is situated at the edges of the world; a bit more space given to the Atlantic and the inclusion of North Africa proper would help to alleviate this problem a fair bit.

[MaKoS]

Adding to your comment what about E SE of the Med?? Where is Malta, Crete, Cyprus or even Egypt??

Tha Naval aspect of the game is seriously undermined by such serious ommisions.

I want my naval supremacy to be challenged. What is the reason to have more than a dozen different ship classes when u don't get the chance to use them in SP??

[JaM]

Guys, you are forgetting one thing - There were no major naval engagements after Trafalgar. French and Spanish fleets cease to exist, France reduced its activities mainly to sending frigates to disrupt British trade lines... btw, Nelson knew Trafalgar will be deccesive - he wrote his will before the battle, and then when Victory was fighting Redoutable he came up on main deck in his best uniform... he knew he wont be needed anymore after this battle, and hoped country will take care of his family better than he could...

[MaKoS]

Is the French GC supposed to be after the naval engagement of Trafalgar 21 Oct.1805 ??

[R.G.S.]

The French and the Spanish both start out with decent-ish fleets off the coast of Portugal as I recall.

As to what happened historically after the start date - TW is about rewriting history (to an extent at least, look at the N:TW trailer for e.g. burning HMS Victory...). This doesn't mean making things unrealistic, but taking decisions that you best see fit and choosing your own path (within realistic constraints), rather than attempting to mimic history - After all the AI won't always anyway, it too has it own ideas...

IMO The addition of North Africa would make a big difference.

[JCR]

Guys, you are forgetting one thing - There were no major naval engagements after Trafalgar. French and Spanish fleets cease to exist, France reduced its activities mainly to sending frigates to disrupt British trade lines... btw, Nelson knew Trafalgar will be deccesive - he wrote his will before the battle, and then when Victory was fighting Redoutable he came up on main deck in his best uniform... he knew he wont be needed anymore after this battle, and hoped country will take care of his family better than he could...

Nope.
There was still considerable fleet activity afterwards.
There was an ill fated french expedition into the caribbean in 1807, there was considerable fleet action in the adriatic after the french started building ships there.
And in contrary to NTW, it was possible to build ships in blockaded ports, which was exactly what the french did and by 1814, the french navy was actually bigger than 1805 and arguably better skilled.
There was AFAIK no naval combat during the 100 days, so Bourbon France simply inherited a fine brand new fleet...

[Dain]

How would they be more skilled if they'd been cooped up in a blockade? That was one of the reasons for the huge difference in skill of crews.

[Lusen]

I actually woudnt mind that CA removed naval battles in the next game. I dont think its very funny or interesting

[JCR]

How would they be more skilled if they'd been cooped up in a blockade? That was one of the reasons for the huge difference in skill of crews.

Frigates went out, and smaller warships. Officers serving on them got promoted to ships of the line.
The Trafalgar french navy was still hampered by the revolution, the navy of 1812 or so not anymore.

[Markas]

I actually woudnt mind that CA removed naval battles in the next game. I dont think its very funny or interesting

I bloody would; it's called Total War not Total War-unless-you're-on-7/10-of-the-worlds-surface.

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From the little I've played, it looks like you have to husband your ships quite carefully. In the first few turns I managed to get my fleet sunk as Britain (ing santissima trinidad) and thought it would be easy to rebuild a fleet up. I hadn't realised it can take up to 6-7 turns to built even a high-class frigate. The French fleet then scoured the northern trade zones of my merchantmen.

Great feature but I rather wished I'd known earlier.

[MaKoS]

Some figures for comparison (N.A.M RODGER):

SOLs

1800:
GB:127
FR:44
ES:66
NL:16
RU:67

1805
GB:136
FR:41
ES:40
NL:16
RU:47

1815
GB:126
FR:52
ES:16
NL:19
RU:48

As we can see there are some decent fleets all through the Napoleonic era. It seems that the only one seriously affected was SPAIN from 66 goes to just 16 in 15 years! France increases its strength by 8 ships.

Of course I cannot argue with "RGS" on the issue that the game is all about rewriting history. Otherwise I would not play in the shoes of NAPOLEON as the outcome would have been predetermined...u know outside a small Belgian village called WATERLOO....

[happycynic]

Naval battles are beautiful, and I love the new ship types. I just never get to use them. As England, you get at best two nice engagements - and basically the same ones every time. Way to confined. And the others really need access to better/more numerous ship types.

[Zetto]

there simply not enough water in NTW to have large navies and large navy battles, unlike ETW where over half of all the maps were water.

[Amos]

Good point maybe well see some naval changes in the next patch/dlc. Currently the navy seems a waste of money and far too passive under the ai.

[MaKoS]

I hope so...

[Randall Turner]

Guys, you are forgetting one thing - There were no major naval engagements after Trafalgar. French and Spanish fleets cease to exist, France reduced its activities mainly to sending frigates to disrupt British trade lines...

I think the key difference is that Britain had the entire French coast under blockade. As-is, there is no incentive for a French player to engage a British fleet, he simply needs to avoid the trade nodes along the northwest corner of the world.

Adding a bit of smarts to the British naval AI would improve the game. (If done right, of course, it'll also grossly imbalance the game - France should have the capability to build its army with French inland national resources.)