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Thread: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

  1. #1

    Default Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    I notice in the game that only France, England, and Spain can build First and Second Rates (with the exception of an 86 gun ship for Portugal, I believe). I know from several books I own that only England built Second Rates, but what about First Rates for other navies? Did the second tier naval powers like Russia, Sweden, Denmark, and Holland really not build anything larger than a Third Rate (and yes I know the Rating system was British only, but it is an easy shorthand)?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=338434

    Already spoke on the issue. Further, I don't know that I would count Russia as a 'second rate' naval power:

    http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napole...e.com/navy.htm

    10 ships of the line fewer than the French.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Quote Originally Posted by Swerg View Post
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=338434

    Already spoke on the issue. Further, I don't know that I would count Russia as a 'second rate' naval power:

    http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napole...e.com/navy.htm

    10 ships of the line fewer than the French.
    Thanks for the info!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    During the Napoleonic era the biggest Danish lineship was 'Christian den Syvende' of 90 guns. But most lineships had 64-74 guns because the Danish waters was very shallow and the ships couldn't sit too deep in the water.
    This came into play during the Battle of Copenhagen 1801 where Hyde Parker kept his 3-deckers back and had Nelson attack with his squadron of 74s

  5. #5

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Quote Originally Posted by Bering View Post
    During the Napoleonic era the biggest Danish lineship was 'Christian den Syvende' of 90 guns. But most lineships had 64-74 guns because the Danish waters was very shallow and the ships couldn't sit too deep in the water.
    This came into play during the Battle of Copenhagen 1801 where Hyde Parker kept his 3-deckers back and had Nelson attack with his squadron of 74s
    Yeah, I understand that most ships were third rates. However, as you and others have pointed out powers like Russia and Denmark could and did build three-deckers as flagships. The point of my question is that I think for gameplay reasons CA should allow all powers to build some kind of First Rate as a flagship. I understand limiting the 122 gun monsters to the big three, but having no three-deckers is a big disadvantage. I just wanted to know if it was historically accurate for other powers to be building three-deckers.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Were there many 3 deckers in the British navy any way

  7. #7

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Quote Originally Posted by Player2 View Post
    Were there many 3 deckers in the British navy any way
    Yes. They were typically used as flagships for larger fleets, so maybe 3 or so for a typical large fleet.

  8. #8
    AUSSIE11's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    between 1785 and 1815 england built 7 First rates, and about the same number of 2nd rates... more 2nd rates where captured than built... This is using the older rating systems. 63,176 and 3, thats how much HMS Victory cost, a third rate however cost considerably less. HMS Swiftsure (74) cost 31,241.3.5 and Swiftsure was built almost 30 yrs later meaning that at the time of Victory's building it would have been even cheaper. And that is the exact reason why most countries didn't build the bigger ships, Cash.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    anyone know where the hms victory is in napoleon total war??? how can they forget that?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Quote Originally Posted by Bering View Post
    During the Napoleonic era the biggest Danish lineship was 'Christian den Syvende' of 90 guns. But most lineships had 64-74 guns because the Danish waters was very shallow and the ships couldn't sit too deep in the water.
    This came into play during the Battle of Copenhagen 1801 where Hyde Parker kept his 3-deckers back and had Nelson attack with his squadron of 74s
    But it should be added that the three-decker Christian VII was at the very end of its lifespan by then. She was built in 1767, and her replacement was a two-decker 90 of the same name, for all practical purposes what the rest of the world would call a two-decker 80. She was launched in 1805. The Danish Navy had three large two-deckers of about this size at that time (the Chr VII of 90, Neptunus and Waldemar of 80, plus two oversized 74s, Danmark and Norge), with 74- and 64- gun ships making up the rest of the battlefleet.

    Limiting Denmark at least to building no three-deckers makes perfect sense in the game.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Naval force in Napoleonic Period

    Quote Originally Posted by snurresprett View Post
    But it should be added that the three-decker Christian VII was at the very end of its lifespan by then. She was built in 1767, and her replacement was a two-decker 90 of the same name, for all practical purposes what the rest of the world would call a two-decker 80. She was launched in 1805. The Danish Navy had three large two-deckers of about this size at that time (the Chr VII of 90, Neptunus and Waldemar of 80, plus two oversized 74s, Danmark and Norge), with 74- and 64- gun ships making up the rest of the battlefleet.

    Limiting Denmark at least to building no three-deckers makes perfect sense in the game.

    You are right. I have been mistaken the two ships for the one and same, since they have the same name and number of guns.

    The three-decker was rebuilt in 1799 as a blokskib (don't know the english word for this) and renamed 1801 to PrÝvesteenen.

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