Fire and Advance

[hannibalic]

So it seems they have fixed fire and advance. Now your units will get into formation while still out of range. I've also noticed you can keep units in deep formations and all ranks will still fire and advance. If you click on an enemy your units will keep firing and advancing, but if you double click each rank will only fire once and then they will charge. I was really happy to see that.

[Spectre11B]

Do units lose some range when they are in fire and advance?


I've already lost some matches where I thought my units were in range when I clicked on Fire and Advance, just to come back to see them getting shot up by the infantry unit in front of them and they hadn't fired one shot.

[daniu]

Do units lose some range when they are in fire and advance?

Yes, they do.
I found this and this video to be very useful to understand the NTW FAA.

[Slaists]

Do units lose some range when they are in fire and advance?


I've already lost some matches where I thought my units were in range when I clicked on Fire and Advance, just to come back to see them getting shot up by the infantry unit in front of them and they hadn't fired one shot.

As Daniu said, units DO seem to lose range with Fire and Advance. I do not see a logical explanation why they should, but they do. Using the auto-fire fire-and-advance drill (not the targeted one) I've been shot to pieces by the opposing (AI's) line which was just using the regular "first-line-fires" mode and, as a consequence, were out-ranging my line. After this "lesson", I stopped using FAA.

[Spectre11B]

As Daniu said, units DO seem to lose range with Fire and Advance. I do not see a logical explanation why they should, but they do. Using the auto-fire fire-and-advance drill (not the targeted one) I've been shot to pieces by the opposing (AI's) line which was just using the regular "first-line-fires" mode and, as a consequence, were out-ranging my line. After that, I stopped using FAA.

I agree. Any advantage to this stance is almost completely lost due to the inability to gain the initiative. I've even tried to use it where space was limited and you couldn't spread out. The idea was to allow the soldiers in the rear a chance to shoot.


However, if they aren't in perfect formation (I think the game tries to line up the men so they have room to move around each other), and if there is something obstructing this from happening, then they just sit there. For example, if you're in a town and you're men are wedged between two objects, they won't fire. I even think this can occur if there is something blocking their movement on one side also.

The benefits to this stance are really terrain dependent and almost not worth using.

[Keiichi]

However, if they aren't in perfect formation (I think the game tries to line up the men so they have room to move around each other), and if there is something obstructing this from happening, then they just sit there. For example, if you're in a town and you're men are wedged between two objects, they won't fire. I even think this can occur if there is something blocking their movement on one side also.

Ugh, sounds like when you try to place stakes but there's something blocking your men from forming a full line, so they just sit there as well. Good to know that fire and advance has the same problem.

I do, however, like using fire and advance when I have the opportunity for it. In the untargeted mode, when the men are arranged into three ranks they will send out volleys at a slightly faster rate than rank-fire in ETW, about 4 seconds faster to be exact . So it's pretty handy when I know my opponent is not going to be able to respond to the fire properly; the high volume of fire in a short time period really puts a damper on enemy morale.

The targeted mode (which ends with a charge) is also useful when you know you hold an advantage and you want to quickly bring about a decision to an action. For example, last night my opponent had a depleted unit of Prussian musketeers (62 men) on his flank, so I sent in a nearly fresh unit of Young Guard (100 men) to attack them with the targeted fire and advance. The Guard lost 20 men but they completely wiped out the Prussian unit almost immediately after charging. When the Prussians broke, they made the mistake of trying to flee by running through the Guard's line, was a slaughter .

[hannibalic]

I tried using it last night with brit. I had all highlanders for line, no artillery, 2 rifles I think, 4 hvy cav and 1 light. I put the highlanders into two lines, one behind the other, the first line in fire and advance mode. I advanced the first line with the second line walking behind it so that when the first line was ready to charge the second line would be right behind them and I could just hit run and they would all charge. It actually worked pretty good. Against a player that I never beat I almost won but I forgot to eliminate all his cavalry before I charged. His units were routing so fast I couldn't keep up, but he got me with what was left of his cavalry. This all took place on fairly open ground so obstacles weren't a factor. I think out of the 4 units I had in fire and advance , only one got a little screwed up but I just switched them to melee and charged.

[Spectre11B]

Yes Keiichi, I recently played a game where I was counting on the stakes to drop, and they just sat there. Since they were trying to place stakes, they wouldn't shoot. So a single cav unit ripped through that unit and got in behind my lines. What made it most frustrating was his cav was trudging at a snails pace through the woods, and they still were able to hit my rifles.

hannibalic- I think there might be a situational use for them, kind of like what you mentioned. Maybe when you see the enemy's morale lower to steady, a quick F&A formation to unload the rest of your ammo and then a complimentary charge to hopefully break them seems like it would work.

Going to test it out and see how it goes.

[hannibalic]

I don't know....I charged right off the bat. The only firet I gave before the charge was the three volleys from the units in F+A. I attacked 2 of my units to one of his. Aside from his remaining cavalry picking me apart, what killed me was I didn't expect my charge to rout his units so fast, so I kept finding my units just standing around. I didn't make good use of my forces or keep any real momentum going, but I was still able to split his army in two with the charge. I think there might be something to be said for charging first and then finishing with fire instead of the other way around. For example, you mass your infantry for a charge in the center while your cavalry disrupts your opponents flanks. Once you break his center, you should have most of your infantry still and you can split them in half attacking left and right with musket fire. You should be able to envelope both of his flanks then since he should be outnumbered at that point especially if he brought artillery and you didn't.

[{GODS}Scipio_Africanus]

Wow, I shall be sure to use this in battles now Hannibalic. It sounds like it could be a great tactic!

[bushranger]

I think it works very well but only with a few nations,could you imagine trying the tactic with one of those weak nations with the cheap units like Sweden against england that has 11 defense for its line.

[hannibalic]

I think it works very well but only with a few nations,could you imagine trying the tactic with one of those weak nations with the cheap units like Sweden against england that has 11 defense for its line.

yeah no way it would work

[Player2]

It was in ETW so i never tried it in NTW but will have a look

[daniu]

I can confirm units need space on their side to spread out.
I have a replay where they first get stuck and after I reposition them, execute "don't fire and advance".

[Slaists]

I can confirm units need space on their side to spread out.
I have a replay where they first get stuck and after I reposition them, execute "don't fire and advance".

A solution seems to be to place a line (several line men units) just in that, in a line, already in fire an advance stance. That way, everybody has the needed space before you start to advance them.

[daniu]

A solution seems to be to place a line (several line men units) just in that, in a line, already in fire an advance stance. That way, everybody has the needed space before you start to advance them.

Possibly... but I was talking about situations where this is not possible.
As Spectre said, FAA would be most useful in dense formations to allow ranks in the back to fire instead of idling around.
The situation of fire and advancing through a street in a city comes to mind... which is exactly where it often isn't possible because the houses left and right block the unit.

[Slaists]

Possibly... but I was talking about situations where this is not possible.
As Spectre said, FAA would be most useful in dense formations to allow ranks in the back to fire instead of idling around.
The situation of fire and advancing through a street in a city comes to mind... which is exactly where it often isn't possible because the houses left and right block the unit.

I actually tried doing that too. It seems to work if you put the unit in deep formation. So, once it spreads out, the edges of the unit are not touching the houses. Still borked, I know...

[Keiichi]

A solution seems to be to place a line (several line men units) just in that, in a line, already in fire an advance stance. That way, everybody has the needed space before you start to advance them.

Excellent point. When you hit the F&A button, the regiment immediately goes for what appears to be a default formation of three ranks, no matter what formation it currently is in (thus creating problems when a line of that length won't fit in the area the unit is currently occupying). As you point out, however, you can free adjust the length of the line once it is in the F&A drill, so one simply has to be careful to make that adjustment in tight areas.

[hannibalic]

Possibly... but I was talking about situations where this is not possible.
As Spectre said, FAA would be most useful in dense formations to allow ranks in the back to fire instead of idling around.
The situation of fire and advancing through a street in a city comes to mind... which is exactly where it often isn't possible because the houses left and right block the unit.

You mean units can fire through a unit in F+A? Really I think it's only viable when used to deliver a volley right before a charge. Otherwise it seems like you would be better leaving it off if you intend to shoot it out with someone.

[daniu]

You mean units can fire through a unit in F+A?

No... I mean: normally, only two ranks can fire. So, if you have your unit in two ranks, every man can fire as soon as he has loaded.
Now, let's say you deployed 4 ranks deep. The first two ranks can fire; that's only half the unit! The two ranks in the back stand around with loaded guns.
What FAA makes possible is that those ranks move to the front to fire their muskets while the two ranks originally in the front reload.

And Slayist, I think I misunderstood you. You're saying: activate FAA first, let the unit spread, then deploy in deep formation, no blocking will happen?
Got to try that out again... I thought at least in ETW it was like platoon fire where units un-spread when they stop firing.