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Thread: People who use sniper tactics...

  1. #1
    BrodY's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default People who use sniper tactics...

    ... clearly doesen't have the brain capacity nor the patience for a standup tactical formations fight. I've played 6 battles now, and ALWAYS end up facing a "sniper"-opponent. I mean what's the point to have all these wonderful tactical gameplay within your grasp if you're just gonna let it all go to waste by using 125-rangers ALL THE TIME?

    Take some risks! Is losing a battle really that horrific? Or is it that you want to raise your star level? Give me a break.

    I'm not ranting on about this because I'm a sore loser, and I also use 1 or 2 sniper units to harass the opponent and try to trigger an assault. But to use snipers only? Seriously.

  2. #2
    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrodY View Post
    ... clearly doesen't have the brain capacity nor the patience for a standup tactical formations fight. I've played 6 battles now, and ALWAYS end up facing a "sniper"-opponent. I mean what's the point to have all these wonderful tactical gameplay within your grasp if you're just gonna let it all go to waste by using 125-rangers ALL THE TIME?

    Take some risks! Is losing a battle really that horrific? Or is it that you want to raise your star level? Give me a break.

    I'm not ranting on about this because I'm a sore loser, and I also use 1 or 2 sniper units to harass the opponent and try to trigger an assault. But to use snipers only? Seriously.
    Well... As I see it:

    Best thing you could do is to a) Avoid 'No-Artillery/Artillery Limitation' games, and b) Not care that he, by completely tattering the gameplay experience of others, is ruining his own gameplay experience.

    If you DO want to play against these almost entirely skirmisher-saturated armies, I advice that you look for the classical signs - is the game a 'No-Arty/Artillery Limitation' game? Should it be obvious, then bring lots of cavalry to counter his build.

    Also, in the cases where such things are not obvious, try to use a balanced build. Don't bring too little artillery (four pieces should suffice), and don't feel afraid to use the 20 lbr Unicorn to counter light infantry-heavy builds.

    Other than that, there is no proper point in comlaining about the sometimes unacceptable behaviour of enemies (and allies) in multiplayer. It will in most cases go completely unnoticed by the foul player, and there will always be some truly rotten scum out there, exploiting every aspect of the game.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Sounds like you haven't played ETW MP a lot
    Don't play Grassy Flatlands, a rifle-only army will half the time find itself shooting into terrain if there is any.
    Also, you may not want to play ranked, it seems to bring out the bad in people .

    EDIT: oh yes, and agree with Aanker on not playing no art games.
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    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    I always keep a unit or two of those someplace hidden to counter act other players moves. Figure out where someone is most likely to try and flank you from, find a spot of trees or something similar, and put a unit with really good range there hidden.

    Then while your artillery is firing and you are moving your main battle lines after the enemy, it looks as if one section of your flank is exposed. If the enemy player is gullible enough to fall for it he will send in some dragoons or lancers that cannot fire from horseback and try to charge into your artillery units. They run full speed into a unit with long range and get smacked down hard.

    This is not cheap, this is good tactics.

  5. #5
    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by daniu View Post
    Sounds like you haven't played ETW MP a lot
    Don't play Grassy Flatlands, a rifle-only army will half the time find itself shooting into terrain if there is any.
    Also, you may not want to play ranked, it seems to bring out the bad in people .

    EDIT: oh yes, and agree with Aanker on not playing no art games.
    Guess how I learned not to join the 'No Arty'-games on Grassy Flatlands... I thought that artillery was superfluous and Grassy Flatlands a very balanced map, without the kiters and campers... I was wrong. It wasn't exactly a joyride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    Russia have managed to weaponize the loneliest and saddest people on the internet by providing them with (sometimes barechested) father figures whom they can adhere to in order to justify their hatred for the current establishment and the society that rejects them.

    UNDER THE PROUD PATRONAGE OF ABBEWS
    According to this poll, 80%* of TGW fans agree that "The mod team is devilishly handsome" *as of 12/10

  6. #6

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrodY View Post
    ... clearly doesen't have the brain capacity nor the patience for a standup tactical formations fight. I've played 6 battles now, and ALWAYS end up facing a "sniper"-opponent. I mean what's the point to have all these wonderful tactical gameplay within your grasp if you're just gonna let it all go to waste by using 125-rangers ALL THE TIME?

    Take some risks! Is losing a battle really that horrific? Or is it that you want to raise your star level? Give me a break.

    I'm not ranting on about this because I'm a sore loser, and I also use 1 or 2 sniper units to harass the opponent and try to trigger an assault. But to use snipers only? Seriously.
    You mean he used a full stack of Snipers ?

  7. #7
    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    I always keep a unit or two of those someplace hidden to counter act other players moves. Figure out where someone is most likely to try and flank you from, find a spot of trees or something similar, and put a unit with really good range there hidden.

    Then while your artillery is firing and you are moving your main battle lines after the enemy, it looks as if one section of your flank is exposed. If the enemy player is gullible enough to fall for it he will send in some dragoons or lancers that cannot fire from horseback and try to charge into your artillery units. They run full speed into a unit with long range and get smacked down hard.

    This is not cheap, this is good tactics.
    Sorry for the double, but:

    No, that is not cheap. That use of sharpshooters is both highly legitimate and very tactical, but there is a very fine limit between acceptable use and right out spamming. In the case you mentioned, you still used your skirmishers to indirectly support your bulk of line infantry, but there are a great many games where the line infantry regiments, in stead, are supporting the skirmishers (and the skirmishers essentially are the bulk).

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    Russia have managed to weaponize the loneliest and saddest people on the internet by providing them with (sometimes barechested) father figures whom they can adhere to in order to justify their hatred for the current establishment and the society that rejects them.

    UNDER THE PROUD PATRONAGE OF ABBEWS
    According to this poll, 80%* of TGW fans agree that "The mod team is devilishly handsome" *as of 12/10

  8. #8

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Adapt or perish.

    It cannot be worse than in ETW, can it?

  9. #9
    Hekko's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanker View Post
    Guess how I learned not to join the 'No Arty'-games on Grassy Flatlands... I thought that artillery was superfluous and Grassy Flatlands a very balanced map, without the kiters and campers... I was wrong. It wasn't exactly a joyride.
    Grassy flatlands is balanced, not just for what most people find fun

  10. #10

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Yea, I can honestly say I hate skirmishers in MP, and especially now more than ever that Line inf doesn't have fire by rank, so even when they get in range, only 40-60 guns are on target.

  11. #11

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    And why should someone don't exploit some game feature if it will bring an advantage? It's like saying "don't use stakes and grenades". I can snipe. I got units to snipe. Developers allowed it, thus I can use it.
    Don't like it - go find another game or deal with it)))


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  12. #12

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Total War MP games have always depended on player-made rules to make them balanced, I think limiting skirmish units to 3 would solve the problem.

  13. #13
    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Icon13 Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lockhard View Post
    And why should someone don't exploit some game feature if it will bring an advantage? It's like saying "don't use stakes and grenades". I can snipe. I got units to snipe. Developers allowed it, thus I can use it.
    Don't like it - go find another game or deal with it)))
    Well, sure, but does it make for a fun game when all the enemy does is engage, retreat away, engage, retreat away... The whole battle is supposed to reach a climax at some point, with maneuvering leading up to it, but in the little merry sniper/skirmisher wars on Grassy Flatlands, what you have is an hour or so of maneuvering without a climax. Boring. Besides, if you played E:TW (which I take it you did), you know how intimidatingly dull it is to have two armies face each other at a standoff, no one daring to move into the other's firing arc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    Russia have managed to weaponize the loneliest and saddest people on the internet by providing them with (sometimes barechested) father figures whom they can adhere to in order to justify their hatred for the current establishment and the society that rejects them.

    UNDER THE PROUD PATRONAGE OF ABBEWS
    According to this poll, 80%* of TGW fans agree that "The mod team is devilishly handsome" *as of 12/10

  14. #14

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hekko View Post
    Grassy flatlands is balanced, not just for what most people find fun
    Maybe, but I play to have fun, so meh.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Besides, if you played E:TW (which I take it you did), you know how intimidatingly dull it is to have two armies face each other at a standoff, no one daring to move into the other's firing arc.
    Developers never changed this since early ETW. That means they are happy with current situation. Don't like it - attack and waste your units under opponent's barrage or wait an hour, when your artillery beats enemy artillery.
    Creative Assembly intended people to play this way so either play by the rules, or find another game.


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  16. #16

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    100 range lights have 50% more men and also the same speed as rifles and 50% faster reload take about six of them instead of rifles and take about six of cavalry take a couple of meat shields to charge at them and draw their initial fire. Riflemen will fire 15 times inflicting at best 12 times their sizes in casualties but what happens if you 100 range in skirmish formation occupies a bottleneck cover like woods or the opposite side of a stip dune slope waiting for them to get within range and line of sight and having cover? Massacre. If he doesn;t bring Line to form squares and protect them then you cavalry will destroy them in less than 5 melee seconds ( cheap lancers kill then in less than 3 seconds and Mounted line infantry units are cavalry with size equal to riflemen size). By the way did you know Rifles have lees than 5 in defense? Even camel gunners/militia can kill them in melee. The solution is to play on small/medium funds so as to have more units than him since even cheap cavalry and militia are enough against them. Finally use the general's morale replenishent abilities so that you units don't break and there you got them. Hope this helps.

  17. #17

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lockhard View Post
    Developers never changed this since early ETW. That means they are happy with current situation. Don't like it - attack and waste your units under opponent's barrage or wait an hour, when your artillery beats enemy artillery.
    Creative Assembly intended people to play this way so either play by the rules, or find another game.
    They also didn't include a flat map until the community demanded it. They also included artillery in the game. If all these are true statements, then we shouldn't always be playing no artillery games on grassy flatlands. Therefore the issue is not how the developers meant for the game to be played. It is a player choice to play this way and I think it's valid for him to gripe that so many players try to take the easy way out. There is even an entire clan devoted to playing in this fashion.

    That said, I still agree with you that it is within bounds of the game to play that way, so it's really up to us to become better players to defeat these rifle spammers. Fortunately they have little tactical depth, so a flanking attack is usually all that's needed to defeat them, we just need to develop our tactics to accomplish this on grassy flatlands.

  18. #18
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Can you imagine one general contacting another one and saying:

    "HEY! You cant have any long range rifles! I cant win when you do that!"

  19. #19
    Hekko's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    Can you imagine one general contacting another one and saying:

    "HEY! You cant have any long range rifles! I cant win when you do that!"
    Well, umm, if one tactic becomes to dominant it makes sense to limit it since this tactic can either make it into a guess fest of rock-paper-scissors, or it will make the game so boring that it no longer is worth playing. It's the same, valid tbh, reasoning here as with not playing grassy flatlands, it's not fun! Hence it makes sense to have rules.

  20. #20

    Default Re: People who use sniper tactics...

    In the games i host i limit each army to no more than 2 120 range units to keep things realistic and fun and to prevent the ridiculous skirmisher shootouts u are referring to.

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