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Thread: Body parts

  1. #1
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    'Ethics is only applicable to those who are not involved personally,' says John Tan, a paramedic who runs a Malacca dialysis centre and helps run the association. He confirms most kidneys are from executed prisoners, and says the executions take place in the Chongqing hospital, the condemned prisoner being allowed to die under anaesthetic after organs have been removed.

    'They do not suffer any pain as compared to the trauma they'd suffer just before being shot.'
    "Legal" or illegal trafficking of body parts is a widespread practice in most countries. The body parts either obtained through murder, coercion or willingfully (?) sold for profit end up with the richest purchasers and not forcibly with the ones in most dire need.

    By Brian Kates, Daily News Staff Writer
    Originally published in the New York Daily News, August 25, 2002

    An international transplant Mafia based in the former Soviet Union is capitalizing on America's organ-shortage crisis by smuggling live donors into the country to sell their lungs and kidneys, the Daily News has learned.

    Illicit organ donors from Moldova, the poorest country in the former Soviet Union, enter the United States—mostly at Kennedy Airport—on false student or tourist visas. They are whisked to hospitals where their organs are removed and sold, government sources said.

    The Moldovan connection, the first organized-crime organ-selling ring uncovered in the United States, takes advantage of the vast difference between the need for lifesaving organs and the scarcity of supply.

    About 86,000 Americans are currently waiting for a transplant; 6,124—about 17 a day—died last year for want of an organ.

    The Brooklyn U.S. attorney's office, which is spearheading the Moldovan case, declined comment.

    But a source involved in the investigation confirmed the FBI and the State Department's visa fraud section is closing in on the gang ringleaders, whose operatives match desperately impoverished donors to equally desperate patients.

    There have been no arrests, but suspects are cooperating in the investigation, the source said.

    The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, called the ring global and said it operates in several states—including New York, where 8,000 people are currently waiting for transplants.

    In some cases, the Moldovans have duped doctors into believing they are giving their organs altruistically to family members. But, the source said, "There are clearly some doctors who knew what the entire deal is about" and profit from it.

    Some of the ring's beneficiaries are believed to be children whose parents pay huge sums to save their lives.
    Apart from the legal or Illegal market, there is also the option of donating body parts, before or after death to public organizations so those could be used for transplants.

    Last but not least, human bodies mainly from inmates of Russian prisons and Psychiatric asylums have been used for the (in)famous Bodyworld exhibition:http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp


    So there are three topics in this thread.

    A.Your ethical view in organs trafficking/selling organs but also blood, sperm for profit.
    B.Your view in donnating organs before or after death.
    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.

  2. #2
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    A.Your ethical view in organs trafficking/selling organs but also blood, sperm for profit.
    Donation should be voluntary. Monetary payment for said donations is a very tricky area. This will encourage the destitute to sell parts of their bodies in an attempt to get a better life. To me, this comes pretty close to exploiting the poor purely for the benefit of the rich. The social cost far outweighs the benefits. Over time, expect the organs to be worth less (as more poor get used to the idea of selling the organs AND there are always more people who need money than have it). Once money comes into the equation, criminals get interested...

    B.Your view in donnating organs before or after death.
    I have absolutely no problem with either. I, personally, believe that we should adopt an 'opt out' system where it is assumed that you want to donate your organs unless it has been specified otherwise. Unless specified in a will, the next of kin should be able to withdraw assumed consent.

    Before death, why not. Provided it doesn't cause a debilitating health problem then I cannot see a problem. Of course it could happen that the donor develops a problem with the remaining organ but, essentially, you are exchanging a problem that does exist for one that might exist. Blood donation is almost a moral duty, if you are capable of it. No harm is delivered at all to the donar and the blood is replaced by the body reasonably quickly.

    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.
    Hm... This revolves around human dignity etc. To be honest, I am not keen on this. Damien Hurst (?) made a bust of himself in his frozen blood. I, personally, find this disttasteful - though I can appreciate the ideas behind it. The same goes for using animal body parts (again, same artist). I don't see the appeal at all.

    However, art is about challenging our ideas... I'm just not convinced about this one.

  3. #3
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    A.Your ethical view in organs trafficking/selling organs but also blood, sperm for profit.
    B.Your view in donnating organs before or after death.
    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.
    A. No problems with it. This view assumes that coercion is not used to force people to give up their organs. It is saving someone's life, or creating life; and in the current system, everything is a commodity, and this can include the human body.
    B. I want to do this. The body is just that, a corporeal lump of flesh; it is the be-all-and-end-all of me, so I have no way to care after death what happens to my body.
    C. See A.

  4. #4

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    A.Your ethical view in organs trafficking/selling organs but also blood, sperm for profit.

    I think illegally selling organs is wrong because it is illegal. And I think body parts shouldn't be sold, but should be give for free, otherwise only rich people could afford them. And as for selling sperm, no, because then if you sell lots of your sperms the population will get too much genes from one source. What about if such genes aren't that good?

    I think this needs more discussion.

    B.Your view in donnating organs before or after death.

    Yeah, as this will help make the life of other humans a little bit longer. But I say after you die, because otherwise you'll need such organs. When I die, if there is a way for my body to be donated to other people, then I say, take what is useful, except my brain since that is me. The rest that is not useful to be burn.

    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.

    I do not get this question. Do you mean pornography?
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

  5. #5
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Pornography as advertisement is a case of the image of the body used as commodity, I had in mind the use of the body per se as commodity, hence the example of the Bodyworlds exhibition.

  6. #6
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Ah, but could it be 'hands on' pornography?

  7. #7
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Yes, use also this example if you think it fits. Commodification by any means. I just didn't want the discussion to veer towards sexual ethics...

  8. #8

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    A.Your ethical view in organs trafficking/selling organs but also blood, sperm for profit.

    Of course, if one could put an end to the traffic of organs, I'd be glad, because most of the time, poor people are abused (as your article shows). Yet, I don't think organs should only be allowed to be given for free. Donating an organ, whichever one, is a serious act and is worth a reward, provided the donator asks for one.


    B.Your view in donnating organs before or after death.

    Perhaps it's cowardice but I won't donate any organs while I'm living, except if a close relative or friend needs it to survive. As for donating when you're dead I tend to agree with imb39: unless specified otherwise, corpses could be used for medical purposes.


    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.

    Again, I agree with imb39. I don't have any particular interest in that kind of art.
    "... the first design of speech was to persuade others; either to give credit to what the speaking person would have them believe; or else to act or suffer such things, as he would compel them to act or suffer, if they are entirely in his power." Mandeville (1670-1733)

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  9. #9

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    C.Your view on the human body as an available commodity for art(?) purposes.

    OK then, if you mean that when I die they shop off my arm, and send it to a museum for people to view it, then... ok.
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

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