Star Wars the Old Republic - Official Thread

[Inhuman One]

How a story is told and the details are very important to me as well.

A movie with a great story on paper can easily be ruined by poor acting performances, bad music choices, shoddy camera work, weird jumpcuts, etc. And likewise, a relatively simple story can be lifted up to be something much greater through strong acting performances, powerfull music, great set designs that pull you in and proper pacing.

Especially pacing is everything, and in the MMO format its just way too slow. Even if I would focus on a single character, it typically would mean having to waste many hours on sidequests and other stuff just to be the proper level to be able to handle the content of the story missions. Kind of hard to keep someone's interest in a story that way, personly I already forgot most of it and when I just started playing the game I wasnt really able to tell apart what happened in a planetary questline or the class story.

Personly I just wonder why they even bothered with the personal stories. It just does not work well for an MMO, at least not in my opinion. I wouldn't say that Bioware was brilliant in KOTOR, Origins or Mass Effect in the general sense as far as stories go, but for videogames they where good stories. Videogames never where that great with it if you compare it to the best movies and books have to offer.
So why even try it when you are aiming for something so much lower in quality than your other work?

Might have been better if they just did not do personal stories and focused more on planetary quests and such instead, encouraging players to go through the content together more. Allow players more freedom in creating their character, offer more dialogue options and choices in that content.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Especially pacing is everything, and in the MMO format its just way too slow. Even if I would focus on a single character, it typically would mean having to waste many hours on sidequests and other stuff just to be the proper level to be able to handle the content of the story missions. Kind of hard to keep someone's interest in a story that way, personly I already forgot most of it and when I just started playing the game I wasnt really able to tell apart what happened in a planetary questline or the class story.

I agree, this is a really big issue. Not bad with the 12x XP boost from Shadow of Revan, but God, levelling up is such a pain in the ass.

Videogames never where that great with it if you compare it to the best movies and books have to offer.

Again, a good point. You can't make a timeless classic like Frankenstein or something as in-depth as 2001 into a Videogame.

Some videogames actually did really well story-wise, KOTOR being cliche but is certainly one of them. The original Halo series done by Bungie had a great story, although 343 has kind of ruined it. The Elder Scrolls is another fantastic universe.

Might have been better if they just did not do personal stories and focused more on planetary quests and such instead, encouraging players to go through the content together more. Allow players more freedom in creating their character, offer more dialogue options and choices in that content.

They actually could have done really well with this, where you focus on the fate of worlds rather than the whole galaxy. The Alderaan and Taris Planetary Stories are good examples: what your actions are could affect the fate of Taris or who succeeds on the Alderanian throne.

[Wulfburk]

Might have been better if they just did not do personal stories and focused more on planetary quests and such instead, encouraging players to go through the content together more. Allow players more freedom in creating their character, offer more dialogue options and choices in that content.

Completely agreed. If they wanted to make a single storyline, they should have just made KOTOR3 (which i would have loved). Since they didnt, they should have let the player have most if not all choices as he made his character and keep it at a blank state. Just started a trooper a week ago and already quit. From the first dialogues you already get the idea you are the "chosen one" which i just coudnt stand really.

[SturmChurro]

Completely agreed. If they wanted to make a single storyline, they should have just made KOTOR3 (which i would have loved). Since they didnt, they should have let the player have most if not all choices as he made his character and keep it at a blank state. Just started a trooper a week ago and already quit. From the first dialogues you already get the idea you are the "chosen one" which i just coudnt stand really.

Even if you wouldn't like the single player aspect, you could always play the game to play with a guild. It is mostly just holding on until endgame to do stuff (I don't have that issue, I like leveling in this game).

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Oh, thinking of KOTOR/TOR, I found an awesome Empire at War mod:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/old-republic-at-war

It was never finished, so there's a few things missing and it has an unfinished/glitchy Galactic Conquest mode, but nevertheless if you own the game I recommend it.

Even if you wouldn't like the single player aspect, you could always play the game to play with a guild. It is mostly just holding on until endgame to do stuff (I don't have that issue, I like leveling in this game).

My issue with levelling is that in Runescape, if you wanted to level up you could do a couple of quests. In this game, it takes like every side quest on a planet to level up once. And I'm P2P, so it must be a nightmare for the F2P people.

[Knight of Heaven]

Even if you wouldn't like the single player aspect, you could always play the game to play with a guild. It is mostly just holding on until endgame to do stuff (I don't have that issue, I like leveling in this game).

exactly. Why you play a MMO when what you realy want is a single player game....

The critiques you see here are comon to people who wanted a KOTOR 3 and not an MMO.

i think for what it is, SWTOR handles itself quite nicely. Even with rough enough edges. I tried other MMOs, and im telling you i always come back to SWTOR. belive it or not with all its faults swtor storytelling makes a difefrence, even if at times is in a diminute state, like in some flashpoints or group content.

The companions cleary feels an unfinished product, as you can see by their conversations, it was suposed to have companion quests for all companions, like you do have for the first companion you get as you level up. Among other unfinished particularities... like Same sex romances.. kalyo and other characters hint or feeel they were made to be that way.

How a story is told and the details are very important to me as well.

A movie with a great story on paper can easily be ruined by poor acting performances, bad music choices, shoddy camera work, weird jumpcuts, etc. And likewise, a relatively simple story can be lifted up to be something much greater through strong acting performances, powerfull music, great set designs that pull you in and proper pacing.

Of course, i would not sugest otherwise, storytelling isnt the strongest suit of an MMO, ever, or any online game for that matter.
Yet in TOR is what it sets it apart and makes it uniquely pleasent and enjoyable imo.
I stand by what i said, storytelling is better in other bioware games, their actual stories not necessarly better imo.
The fact of the matter is im able to enjoy SWTOR and their stories for what they are, and a have a few laughs. Hell even ops and events have a story.
I tell you if the agent story recieved a single player treatment, like other games of bioware, it could easily trump any bioware game made to date, as writting is concerned. Why i say that? because, it is not a wish fullfillment power fantasy like, say, Sith Warrior story. If you go in with expectations of being the mostest awesomest Agent to out-awesome everything in the Galaxy and be told by every NPC how totally AWESOME you are all the way up to the point your Agent saves the galaxy, solves all mysteries in it and is given cookies of awesome by all the most influential people of Galaxy -- well, you won't like the story then.
The Agent is not a Chosen One, and in his/her personal story s/he won't be treated as the Saviour with superpowers. Quite on the contrary, if I may hint as much. And the story is not about saving the Galaxy either - although you get involved in hugely important things, they're just means to emphasize the true focus - evolution of Agent himself.

Cons: you are not awesome. Pros: the story is all about you.

You are not the guy with all the glory, you walk in after the guy with all the glory and quietly clean up the mess the first guy left. While the guys with all the glory, usually aka the sith, keep making your life harder, and you just have to figure out a way to do you job, no matter how hard it seems, in avoiding to be choked or schoked not to mention other dificulties as well proper of the job in question.

Also The story plays better or makes more sense if your agent is a male character. Imo and that seems to be largely the opinion of folks who played it.

http://www.alexanderfreed.com/2013/0...ionage-part-1/

y issue with levelling is that in Runescape, if you wanted to level up you could do a couple of quests. In this game, it takes like every side quest on a planet to level up once. And I'm P2P, so it must be a nightmare for the F2P people.

F2P isnt F2P is trial version. If you want to realy play a sub game, you realy need to sub. F2P is only there so people can have a taste, and decide if they want to sub or not, is that simple. It is more or less the nature of F2P games realy, none of them are actualy free, if you realy want to be invested in them. Its how the model works.

Second, as leveling goes SWTOR is one of the easiest or fastest to lvl i ever seen, In this games ( WOW, and others take much longer) it is suposed to take you time to lvl, the game isnt a race, so take your time, and you might enjoy the game more that way, specialy when there is story, flashpoints , and other content to enjoy as you do it. My mercenary, i rarely play her, yet am already 30, and my class/planetary quest is still on balmora ( on empire side it replaces taris as the third planet you visit), and that only from doing flashpoints and its dailys/weeklys, its basicaly theonly thing i do atm, as im yet to pick on Bh story. Too busy playing my other toons.


They also do this because, most playters just eat trough content or lvl very fast, so by doing this the game feels longer, and gives the oportunity for developers to create new content.

When the game was launched, there was only one Ops... now there is quite a few, and alot of flshpoints, and alot of daily areas to pick and chose. I just made 200k by doing 16 man TfB earlier this evening, in a couple of days i made a milion or so, by doing ops and the yavin dailies/weeklys..., if i wanted i could do the other dailies avaiable ( if i had the time). One of the reasons i didnt like 12xp boost, was that made me overlevel pretty fast, i end up skiping planetary quests on a few planets, and only did the class story there. ( it was nice from a storytelling point of view, as it doesnt broke my emersion of it, but i end up skiping story content. ( i only did it because i already doneit with other toons... But still.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I imagine the Social stuff like Flashpoints gives you more experience. I haven't done any of that yet.

[Knight of Heaven]

Not even the esseles/black talon? Oh you need to do those, at least once, as they are quite story focused.
the black talon one ( empire side) Has Kotor cookie in them if you remember this chick that is..

[Wulfburk]

exactly. Why you play a MMO when what you realy want is a single player game....

I wanted a singleplayer game, but if im going to play a MMORPG, i want a blank state character and if there is a storyline, i want as much freedom as possible. SWTOR gave us neither. Heck, we got bounty hunters and smugglers tied to a faction....

[Inhuman One]

It's true that the imperial agent storyline holds up well and could have been a singleplayer storyline. In fact I do feel they may have done this tale a disservice by not making it that way when you realise how great it could have been as a singleplayer game. If you cut away the filler, have every character voiced in a proffesional manner and all the enviroments brought to life in greater detail, and with a greater combat system, it would be one amazing game.

The power fantasy does get tiring, and makes for a very bland main character. I dont want to be the chosen one, I dont want to be the strongest. A story can have a satisfying ending without saving the galaxy. Heck, saving one world would already be huge in most settings yet here its a minor accomplishment.

Personly I mostly play to Roleplay, and I just ignore the events of the stories like any other roleplayer, since our characters did not do that. Heck, if my main jedi knight character went through the same events she would have died at the first mission, when she had to face someone with a lightsaber when she was a padawan with a training saber.
But nope, you must be super awesome special! Do they not get how bland and boring this makes a character?

Just imagine Luke Skywalker being THAT kind of guy in the movies. He'd spar with Obi-Wan who would instantly proclaim that Luke is stronger than he ever was, he'd kill hundreds of stormtroopers on his own before fighting and killing Darth Vader after Obi-Wan dies, he'd do the trench run on his own and kill whatever is in his path and destroy the death star. On Hoth he'd take out all the walkers by himself and there wouldnt be a retreat. He'd just take his fighter, fly to the imperial fleet, board the main ship and kill everyone, and force the others to surrender. Heck, episode 6 would just be Luke flying to coruscant, fight through thousands of guards and troopers before killing the emperor and being proclaimed the most fantastic super awesome hero of all time.


I mean.. sure, Bioware is known for doing these power fantasies, but I feel they pushed it so far in some class stories that it seems more like a parody of themselves rather than a serious attempt at story telling. Especially with the jedi stories where practicly the first line spoken to you is about how awesome you are, strongest in generations.
But in Jade Empire, it felt like it made sense.. being the first student of the great master Li and trained since childhood. It also asks many moral questions and doesnt just paint it in black and white. There are many emotional situations to draw you in, and others are quite competent too. They are allowed their moments to shine and you would have clearly died without them.

In dragon age origins it depends a bit on the story.. some work better than others. But here it does bother me that despite being the youngest grey warden, you are quickly known as THE grey warden. Personly I feel the darkspawn and grey wardens are a weakness of the series and werent needed since Loghain was the real antagionist. It just feels like they made the grey wardens just to let the player be part of some super special elite club of warriors. Like spectres or jedi knights in other games.

In Mass Effect its a bit of a mixed bag.. you are the first human spectre, and I do feel Shepard is bland. Kind of a typical marine.. it does work better with femshep I must say, since to me a female character instantly feels a bit more like the underdog. That and Jennifer Hale did a great job voicing her.

Though I must say that as far as the player character goes, I actually like it the most in Neverwinter Nights even though I never finished the campaign. While the story lost momentum in the second chapter, I must say the player character was handled quite well. Aside from the stupid thing that you are basicly the only surviving student at the academy of adventurers. But here, the lawfull/chaotic axis helps add more depth along with the usual good and evil axis. Its not about a reward either, your choices simply change your allignment which can be bad for some classes. People also really respond to your race and will even call you a thug if you run around with your weapons in hand. Even many responses to your class. You can be a lawfull good person, and still really have character in this game, and not be a mary sue.

[Knight of Heaven]

I wanted a singleplayer game, but if im going to play a MMORPG

Thats the thing isnt it.
Do i complain about single player games of not being able to alow other people in to enjoy group content like ops, pvp, flashpoints, or sharing my story? No it is a differente genre. If you are going to play an MMO, you will play an MMO, not a single player game. What swtor gives is a flavor of singpleplayer storyline, that is not comon in the genre to begin with.
You should see the personal storyline of GW2... it is even more simplistic.

i want a blank state character and if there is a storyline, i want as much freedom as possible. SWTOR gave us neither. Heck, we got bounty hunters and smugglers tied to a faction....

They are tied to a storytelling... i wanted My shepard to not be special either or even part of the aliance, nor even human but it is what it is.

Besides it is a themepark MMO.... how is arch age doing btw? yeah.

if you going to have factions, it makes sense that they restrict some classes to certain factions. It would be odd to have jedi playing for the sith, or sith playing for jedi, there is a lore perspective to take into account given it is star wars. Besides the way i figure and i can tell from the perspective of these classes, its that they are mercenaries. That is how they treat you in the game anyway.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Which one is the Revan flashpoint btw? The one where you free him? And what level do you have to be to do it?

[Knight of Heaven]

Which one is the Revan flashpoint btw? The one where you free him? And what level do you have to be to do it?

You pick the story in the fleet, from a droid right at mission departures entrance if im not mistaken, master oteg runs you trough. You need to do 2 flashpoints. taral V and maelstrom prison. The quest is arround 35, or so i think. You meet more then Revan btw.

You can also use the Group finder to jump in any flashpoint at anytime. however those you should folow the story, there is questgivers at fleet for all of them, either malgus or Satele are the quest givers via the droids, Also if you want an extra experience and credits, and social points etc, pick up the daily quest, and weekly on the mission terminal at supplies area fo the fleet.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Okay, thanks Knight. I need to find you guys on the servers so we can play together or something.

It's late here, I've been up the past 6 hours on Lego Digital Designer making the Endar Spire. I've got a tiny part of the head of the ship done, it's freaking hard to make.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Starting Balmorra, just found the Revan Flashpoint Courier for the Taral V/Maelstrom mission (where you free Revan) so I'm gonna spend tomorrow doing that.

[Inhuman One]

Welcome to Balmora, outlander.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Ha! I just got that.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Do any of you play on Jedi Covenant? I was gonna say I need someone to do the Revan flashpoint with.

[Knight of Heaven]

Im on Red eclipse. But you can use your group finder. Just queue for your specific role, and to the flashpoint you wanna do, and wait for a group to pop up.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Most people are friendly. But that doesnt mean you might end up with total noobs, that slow you down, or total elitists, or simply people who are used to do those flashpoints, and only want to run them trough fast.

If you are noob to group content, i recomend to go in as a DPS. As every role has typical specific things to do, acording to the fights each one has typical mehcnics. These flashpoints are usualy easy on the mechanics, so no worry.

Operations are much more complicated.

For instance Fighting the dread council the last bosses of Dread palac operation, this might look simple, but it isnt, hard as hell, all players need to know what to do at all times, the coordination between 8, or 16 people is never easy. There is alot of mechanics.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This however is my favorite final boss fight in an Operation ( this one and the Terror from behond one are great )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And this probably my favorite flashpoint final boss confrontation

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Battle of Ilum/and false emperor flashpoints are part of ilums planetary story arch.


Also one thing quite important, if you are new to MMOs and this sort of group content. In looting Just need on gear that is specific to your character. for instance if you are a sentinel, only need on gear that has strengh, and medium armor etc.
Other people dont like when soemoen needs on stuff that they dont realy need.
just basic rule.
You probably can read the swtor tutorials in the codx area, to learn about game group mechanics.
i wish i could help you but i realy dont have any toon on jedi covenant. I dont know how it is the playerbase there. But on Red eclipse, people are mostly friendly, and helpfull. With a rare exception here and there. There will be no doubt people telling you to spacebar conversations, as they did it a thousand times, but given it is story mode, and your first time, if you explain it to them, people tend to be understandable, at least i never had realy much trouble with it.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Yeah I haven't done any group content, only solo stuff so far.

FFS Bastila Robes have jumped up to 1 mil since the Revan expansion came out. Go figure, instead of being 2/5 the way I'm now 1/5 the way. BTW, I assume adaptive armor works by using mods?

But yeah, thanks KoH.