Religion and Man

[JayHawk357]

Last night I went out to a bar and had spent too much money. It had cost me $4.30 for one corona. So needless to say I left early. On my way back to my girlfriend's house to drop her off, a thought hit me. Why?

There is a purpose to everything in this world. There is a purpose to grass, to bacteria, to mosquitos, to the alligators in the river not to far from here. There is a purpose to this planet, to this solar system to this galaxy and on and on and on. What does it all lead up to? I really can't accept the fact that for as sophisticated as our setup is, it leads to nothing. Is there a God? hy did he, she, it or maybe even they create us? The more and more science we discover, I truly believe points more and more to the fact that there is something. WHy does today's man have only one thought process left over from man tens of thousands of years ago? Religion. Why has that not gone away?

Here is the real point to my post, why are man and religion inseperable? Everyone of you have a religion in some form, every person in this world has some form of religion. We all know the main types, Christian, Muslim, Jew hindu etc, but an ardent enviromentalist is in th same boat. He upholds the definition of religion just as well: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. A communists, a capitalist are all religious. Why is that still with us, while each and every other thought process of "primative man" has died out?

To clear up any confusion I am not implying that Religion answers "who created us," I'm saying that religion is an attempt to answer "why."

[Tom Paine]

Well, religion is a part of man because man without faith is no man at all. Faith is an integral part of humanity and a consequence of sentience; whether it be faith in a God, or in the nonexistence of divinity (as it is in my case). Religion is another way to express this faith and the fact we all have it has led to rligion being exploited for various means; power, money, et cetera. Rligion is not really an attempt to answer why, but more an attempt to avoid the question, while simultaneously answering it. If religion was truly personal and different for each person or if it was universal and the same, then it would be an attempt to answer the great why, but as it mainly involves accepting doctriners you do not decide upon and ideas that were formulated by others nowadays, it is more an avoidance of the question by acceptance of another's answer. Religion is a way to avoid thinking about the unknown, a way to fill in the gaps in our knowledge; God of the Gaps, if you will. And since we will never know and understand everything, God will always be with us; there will always be gaps to fill.

[Justinian]

Religion is inseperable from humanity because religion is a way to explain what we can't explain. Humans love for things to be explained to them; religions tie it all up in a neat package with a bow tie on top, and many organized ones consequently make little sense and frequently contradict themselves - yet over a billion people still believe in a religion like Christianity, because it gives them an explanation.

[Tom Paine]

Religion is inseperable from humanity because religion is a way to explain what we can't explain. Humans love for things to be explained to them; religions tie it all up in a neat package with a bow tie on top, and many organized ones consequently make little sense and frequently contradict themselves - yet over a billion people still believe in a religion like Christianity, because it gives them an explanation.

I am forced to disagree; if religion was only about gaps in knowledge, then we would either have one major religion or everyone would have their own. Religion is also about group identity, about companonship, and about being part of something bigger than oneself surely? Religion may have begun as an explanation, but I find it more likely (nd this may seem to contradict my earlier statement) that it began as a protection against the dark; the unknown terrors of the night. Religion means that you have something to rely on and something to blame. It keeps a man sane while simultaneously removing his reason.

[Ldvs]

I'm saying that religion is an attempt to answer "why."

I think you said it all. Squeakus Maximus and Justinian righty pointed out religions primarily answer to doubts, and so long as doubts will exist, so will religions.

Today, most of the religions admits a sole god, yet the purpose remains exactly the same: it proposes explainations to interrogations. And answers reassure. They reassure because we fear the unknown, death especially. One may now be amused by the Ancients' beliefs with their numerous gods. Numerous, why? Because they observed many phenomena, which they could not link together (rain, thunder, wind, flood...), let alone explain. Therefore, they worshipped several gods. Each phenomenon was represented by its god (Zeus the thunder, Hades for the death, etc...). Christianty or Islam only differ from these old beliefs in that a sole deity would be responsible for everything. Of course, today, most of the religious theories, if not all besides the creation of the world and the afterlife, have been utterly proven wrong by scientific demonstrations. Thus, the Church is trying to make people believe that one mustn't take the Bible word for word but that's only an image (the six days of creation are now the six "heaven" days that lasted millions years each).

So why do people fiercely cling to their beliefs, however many times they're proven fallacious? Because if part of what they believed, what they were taught from childhood, is wrong, couldn't the rest be so? It's their whole conception of the world that would collapse and the reality isn't truly pleasant, nor reassuring. Better keep on dreaming, no?

[Tom Paine]

So why do people fiercely cling to their beliefs, however many times they're proven fallacious? Because if part of what they believed, what they were taught from childhood, is wrong, couldn't the rest be so? It's their whole conception of the world that would collapse and the reality isn't truly pleasant, nor reassuring. Better keep on dreaming, no?

It is better to wake up and enter the real world. Living in a dream, while it may be pleasant, is not good for one; it shuts one's eyes to essential truths, like life isn't a utopia or that there is no comfort in simply doing good. Dreaming is essentially fooling yourself, and it is surely better to lose a comforting illusion than it is to keep yourself fooled?

[Ldvs]

It is better to wake up and enter the real world. Living in a dream, while it may be pleasant, is not good for one; it shuts one's eyes to essential truths, like life isn't a utopia or that there is no comfort in simply doing good. Dreaming is essentially fooling yourself, and it is surely better to lose a comforting illusion than it is to keep yourself fooled?

I know, I was only being ironic :wink:

On a side note, did you know that people believing in god tend to have a longer life expectancy? It's said they're more relaxed and confident about the future (the after life). I think it was carried out in the USA. If I find a link related to that study I'll paste it here.

EDIT: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/401091.stm

[Tom Paine]

I'd rather allow myself to see the truth and live in knowledge of it, and also trying to discover what this life meant, than simply deciding I knew and living a longer life but without those purposes...

[JP226]

I'd rather allow myself to see the truth and live in knowledge of it, and also trying to discover what this life meant, than simply deciding I knew and living a longer life but without those purposes...

i'm confused here, isn't that what religion does. Isn't it their way of seeing the truth, and their way of discovering what life meant?

[Tom Paine]

No, religion is someone else's view of the truth that you have accepted because you can't be bothered to thin of your own or because you were always told to simply accept it. It is far harder to live without a truth to set your standards by and to try to find your own, but far more rewarding as well.

[JP226]

No, religion is someone else's view of the truth that you have accepted because you can't be bothered to thin of your own or because you were always told to simply accept it.

You believe in socialism correct? That in itself is someone else's view. You simply accept it and can't be bothered to think for your own, no?

It is far harder to live without a truth to set your standards by and to try to find your own, but far more rewarding as well.

Right... and you are how old again? You acting like someone who has lived, and I mean truely lived, quite a life. For only a person who has seen the world and really attempted to "put it altogether," could make such a statement. Somneone who hasn't well to put it in you words: has "accepted because you can't be bothered to think of your own."

[LordSaradain]

I think religion as a whole is dumb. There are some great things about religion, beleif, faith etc but through history people have suffered so tremendously because of religion(southamerican man sacrifices to the gods, crusades, the holocaust and extermination of jews throughout history(I'm not a jew myself, dont get any ideas)jihad, there has been alot of killing throughout history between people because they have had different religions, protestants/catholics, so much in fact that I think mankind would be much better of without it.
Of course man will always find new reasons to kill each other, and only use religion as a pretext, but still, that would be one less pretext, and if there was no religion, at least there wouldn't be stupid sacrifices to the gods, such as killing animals/people or burning up food etc.

[Tom Paine]

You believe in socialism correct? That in itself is someone else's view. You simply accept it and can't be bothered to think for your own, no?

no, marxism is. I have my own views on socialism and how it should be carried out.

Right... and you are how old again? You acting like someone who has lived, and I mean truely lived, quite a life. For only a person who has seen the world and really attempted to "put it altogether," could make such a statement. Somneone who hasn't well to put it in you words: has "accepted because you can't be bothered to think of your own."

Or maybe has thought and drawn on the experience of others, to thnk out an idea, a solution, or has decided that he cannot yet formulate a solution and has begun to work on it? But no, I'm too young to be that mature...

[JP226]

no, marxism is. I have my own views on socialism and how it should be carried out.

...ok, so but you do still believe in the basic concepts right? Those basic concepts are other peoples ideas and obviously as we all know you can only truely accept an idea if it is your own.

Or maybe has thought and drawn on the experience of others, to thnk out an idea, a solution, or has decided that he cannot yet formulate a solution and has begun to work on it? But no, I'm too young to be that mature...

Yea you are too young to be that mature. As Maslow put it, you only reach that level of thought process at self actualization, and most people never reach that level.

It's ok to accept someone else's idea. Religion is an attempt to answer the unknown. It's an attempt to find out why. It is not all those things you portrayed it as over your last couple of posts.

[Tom Paine]

...ok, so but you do still believe in the basic concepts right? Those basic concepts are other peoples ideas and obviously as we all know you can only truely accept an idea if it is your own.

There is a difference between the idea of equality, which is a very general concept and about the same as the idea of God in this respect, and the ideas of doctrine or practice. ou would not say all religions are the same because they have the same basic idea, ie divinity, would you.

Yea you are too young to be that mature. As Maslow put it, you only reach that level of thought process at self actualization, and most people never reach that level.

It's ok to accept someone else's idea. Religion is an attempt to answer the unknown. It's an attempt to find out why. It is not all those things you portrayed it as over your last couple of posts.

Its an attempt not to face the question. Accepting God because yu have been taught to is not an answer, and blind religion, ie God caused it so don't bother to look further, is very harmful and exactly as I have portrayted religion.

[JP226]

Its an attempt not to face the question. Accepting God because yu have been taught to is not an answer, and blind religion, ie God caused it so don't bother to look further, is very harmful and exactly as I have portrayted religion.

Lol, you really are ignorant of this subject, you need to read up on religion. Your arguments are based off of stereotypes. You should know that Religion is about reflection, it's about who you are and why you are here. It's about the role we as a civilization play in the big picture. But this is getting boring, and is only going to go round and round.

one more thing:

You were taught to accept equality just because, is that not an answer as well?

[Tom Paine]

Lol, you really are ignorant of this subject, you need to read up on religion. Your arguments are based off of stereotypes. You should know that Religion is about reflection, it's about who you are and why you are here. It's about the role we as a civilization play in the big picture. But this is getting boring, and is only going to go round and round.

Religion and civilizastion are different things, especially in this age of secularisation and the separation of church and state. My ideas onm religion are based on what I have seen of it, not off of stereotypes. I must admit it has made me an antitheist, or at least a disestablishmentarianist... actually I'll announce that proudly.

one more thing:

You were taught to accept equality just because, is that not an answer as well?

It is not a answer, it is a beginning and a statement about mankind. Everything I have seen confirms equality at birth, and no I wasn't simply taught everyone was born equally.