What to abuse?

[Hekko]

As everyone who played multiplayer in ETW in the begining knows: mortars were the unit to bring to a game, so what unit is there that is so overpowered it will have to be banned in NTW-MP?

[Carswell]

Who knows at this point...hopefully there won't be a unit that anyone spams.

Doubtful, but I still have hope.

[dmcheatw]

without different gametypes like capture the flag and territories and the like (substituting redoubts for flags of course), it's a lot harder to prevent people spamming units IMO.

[Keiichi]

I'm really curious about the artillery units that can both fire indirectly and also use canister shot. That just seems like an incredibly effective combination, sure it doesn't have the range of mortars (or does it?) but being able to safely fire over the heads over your own line while still having a close range defensive option is great.

Hekko, you raised a good point yourself in another thread when you pointed out that since line infantry only fires by the first rank now, skirmishers with their mass fire will have an even larger edge in shoot-outs. Of course you wouldn't normally want to engage in protracted line vs skirmisher shoot-outs, but sometimes you have to. For example when the enemy has skirmishers backed up by line, if you're playing aggressively you will want to move your line forward and hit the skirmishers while remaining out of range of the enemy line, thus killing or forcing back the enemy skirmishers. If your opponent is slow to notice your line moving up, with rank fire you could have had every single man in the line get a shot off at the enemy skirmishers, potentially routing them. Now in NTW however, with just the first rank firing, you won't be able to get that same effect. Add in the fact that skirmishers have 90 men now, and things could get rough if you're facing a skirmisher heavy army and you didn't bring enough cavalry to help counter them.

[aletoledo]

Hekko, you raised a good point yourself in another thread when you pointed out that since line infantry only fires by the first rank now, skirmishers with their mass fire will have an even larger edge in shoot-outs.

Line seems to stand up well against rifles. The changes in range helped (skirmishers 100 & line 80) and also the line seems to fire like a machine gun now! It almost seems like a waste to take rifles now, kinda like too many mortars or artillery was in ETW. I just faced a guy with 8 rifles, I had only 2 skirmishers and I knocked his socks off head on.

The howitzers do seem to have room for abuse. I took 8 in another game and defeated an infantry heavy build. artillery seems like a major step up from the last game. roundshot actually works now, though it's hard to tell when to aim at the unit or just in front of it. The howitzer shrapnel seems to shot high, kinda like they're being lobbed in a high arc. odd to say the least.

[Keiichi]

Line seems to stand up well against rifles. The changes in range helped (skirmishers 100 & line 80) and also the line seems to fire like a machine gun now! It almost seems like a waste to take rifles now, kinda like too many mortars or artillery was in ETW. I just faced a guy with 8 rifles, I had only 2 skirmishers and I knocked his socks off head on.

Oh I agree, rifles (which are now apparently called sharpshooters?) definitely appear to have had their importance fall by the wayside, that's why I referenced only skirmishers (which I've been informed is the new name for the non-rifle light infantry) as a point of concern. Very cool to see that line fires faster, would you say it makes up for a lack of rank fire?

The howitzers do seem to have room for abuse. I took 8 in another game and defeated an infantry heavy build. artillery seems like a major step up from the last game. roundshot actually works now, though it's hard to tell when to aim at the unit or just in front of it. The howitzer shrapnel seems to shot high, kinda like they're being lobbed in a high arc. odd to say the least.

Could you tell us more about the artillery? Is round shot now the primary shot for cannons? When you say round shot works, what do you mean exactly (it worked in ETW, it just wasn't as good as shrapnel )? Do all howitzers have canister? What made the 8 howitzers you brought so effective against your opponent?

[Desufer]

I just faced a guy with 8 rifles, I had only 2 skirmishers and I knocked his socks off head on.

[aletoledo]

Very cool to see that line fires faster, would you say it makes up for a lack of rank fire?

In terms of kills per minute, yes most definitely. However I think from a historic perspective, the second rank should fire through the gaps of the first. This being more of a multiplayer rather than historic forum though, I don't think anyone will miss rank fire while discussing competitive playing.

Could you tell us more about the artillery? Is round shot now the primary shot for cannons? When you say round shot works, what do you mean exactly (it worked in ETW, it just wasn't as good as shrapnel )? Do all howitzers have canister? What made the 8 howitzers you brought so effective against your opponent?

There is no more shrapnel shot, but the accuracy and the range of artillery has been increased (i.e. the larger cannon shoot farther, but slower). The largest french cannon goes out to 600, like the ottoman great gun used to. In addition, the accuracy has been increased for cannon, but the trajectory is still a slight problem. If you recall, the roundshot would skip over the enemy units, this still happens to some degree (still improved over etw), so there will be a learning curve to roundshot still. The interesting thing though is that when roundshot hits the ground near a unit, it knocks a lot of men down (not killing them). So a single cannonball might knock 20 guys down, killing perhaps 5, all at a distance of 500-600.

Howitzers are different, in that they no longer have any roundshot, they all have canister and the quicklime is now associated to a special "experimental" howitzer. So if you take the experimental howitzer you get quicklime, but no explosive shot. The thing about the explosive shot (don't know if this is the official name for it, but it bursts in air and on the ground) is that it's a lot more accurate. Gone are the shots that went wide and far, now you're likely to get a kill every shot. Sometimes it's just one guy, other times it's it's 15-20.

Mortars are gone, but rockets are now accurate and can kill about 1-5 guys every volley. Against the AI I was able to rout 3 line infantry units using 5 rockets units before they got across the map.

Probably the only disappointment is canister. While howitzers have canister now, the graphics looks odd. It's almost like it's being lobbed rather than coming straight out. Maybe it's just how I view it, but I can swear that something isn't right about it. Along with this graphical anomaly, the canister still targets the end of a unit, requiring manual aiming to strike at the center of a unit. Also the canister (even from cannons, not just howitzers) appears to sail high over the target too often. This might be because of the terrain not being accounted for properly by the AI, because on grassy flatlands the canister seems to work better.

All in all, artillery is going to be a bigger part of the game, yet there is still going to be some skill required to use cannons properly. Howitzers are to a certain extent the new mortars. This aspect though was probably occuring in etw, since everyone used the laser sighting of quicklime on maps like homestead.

[Soveriegn]

Line seems to stand up well against rifles. The changes in range helped (skirmishers 100 & line 80) and also the line seems to fire like a machine gun now! It almost seems like a waste to take rifles now, kinda like too many mortars or artillery was in ETW. I just faced a guy with 8 rifles, I had only 2 skirmishers and I knocked his socks off head on.

The howitzers do seem to have room for abuse. I took 8 in another game and defeated an infantry heavy build. artillery seems like a major step up from the last game. roundshot actually works now, though it's hard to tell when to aim at the unit or just in front of it. The howitzer shrapnel seems to shot high, kinda like they're being lobbed in a high arc. odd to say the least.

I would argue that this was indeed possible and sometimes quite easy after some common sense in ETW. Rifles have always been lesser than line. As for howitzers-one just needs practice the way things are now-but as we should recall art used to be really deadly in early etw too, until patches started to take it down notches.

Oh I agree, rifles (which are now apparently called sharpshooters?) definitely appear to have had their importance fall by the wayside, that's why I referenced only skirmishers (which I've been informed is the new name for the non-rifle light infantry) as a point of concern. Very cool to see that line fires faster, would you say it makes up for a lack of rank fire?

Could you tell us more about the artillery? Is round shot now the primary shot for cannons? When you say round shot works, what do you mean exactly (it worked in ETW, it just wasn't as good as shrapnel )? Do all howitzers have canister? What made the 8 howitzers you brought so effective against your opponent?

In etw the skirmishers should have been thought of this way (as sharpshooters), and recruited accordingly as sharpshooters, or as scouts. Sadly people just see longer range and higher accuracy and do not usually take into account the time they fight in.

[Keiichi]

Thank you for the explanation aletoledo . Very happy to hear that round shot is now the common shot as I simply love watching the cannon balls skip along the ground (not to mention the that it's more historically accurate this way). The bouncing of the balls wasn't too bad in ETW after patch... 1.3 I think it was? When Jack made the round shot not bounce as high as it did in release. To hear that you think it's been improved further and that it can knock men down is really great to hear.

What is your take on grenadiers? With them now having more men and being able to square, could an all militia (for meatshield duty or to otherwise hold enemy units in place) and grenadier army be viable? Speaking of our favorite meatshields, any major differences in the militia over ETW (aside from their great looking uniforms )? Did they also receive an improvement to their rate of fire?

[daniu]

Also thanks for the explanations...

roundshot actually works now, though it's hard to tell when to aim at the unit or just in front of it.

Does targeting a unit still result in the artillery shooting at its side rather than the center?

[RO Citizen]

I hope rifles and Dragoons are more balnced now..I hope

[TheAussieDigger]

light dragoons have alreayd been balanced

from what weve seen with skirmishers. it seems alright but possibly still spammable

[aletoledo]

Also thanks for the explanations...

Does targeting a unit still result in the artillery shooting at its side rather than the center?

Yes that still happens. The problem is that with the longer ranges, faster cannon reloads and it would seem faster units, it's debatable whether you would want to manually aim cannons. Maybe as we get used to everything, we'll have the luxury of manually aiming cannons, but right now the battles seem to be a bit faster paced.


[

What is your take on grenadiers? With them now having more men and being able to square, could an all militia (for meatshield duty or to otherwise hold enemy units in place) and grenadier army be viable? Speaking of our favorite meatshields, any major differences in the militia over ETW (aside from their great looking uniforms )? Did they also receive an improvement to their rate of fire?

I tried grenadiers against the AI only. Good news is that they don't drop their grenades at their feet. Bad news is that they don't seem to kill many. a full spread of grenades among an enemy line seems to kill only 10-12 men. By the looks of the explosions you'd think 20-40 men were getting killed. In ETW if you landed that many grenades at once you're easily kill 20.

Also I only tried militia against the AI. While regular line fire like machine guns, militia appears to fire at a rate like ETW.

[aletoledo]

I hope rifles and Dragoons are more balnced now..I hope

All dragoons must dismount to fire now, but they're not bad cav by themselves now. The only real difference between regular and light dragoons now is the stamina of their horses.

[Lockhard]

Abuse everything!
Quit and drop!
Build skirmishers!
Camp!
Spam artillery!
Kill, Steal!

[Hekko]

Abuse everything!
Quit and drop!
Build skirmishers!
Camp!
Spam artillery!
Kill, Steal!

Okay, will do.

[bushranger]

skirmishers are even more powerful now with the amount of men they have, the extra numbers are way over the top and make it near impossible to rout them fast, people will abuse this,expect to see more light inf than line in every game and also dont bother bringing gen units the better arty just cleans them up right away.

[TheAussieDigger]

this is what i ing feared. didnt CA notice that rifles were a bit unhistorically overused in ETW?

so what do they do?

make them stronger!

[JLea]

I dont even see the problem with rifles anyways. I always have about 4 hussars in my armies and they rout those riflemen very quickly.